Lesbian girlfriend likes ftm's

LegacyUser · 02-07-2011 01:29AM #1

I want to post this anonymous, I hope nobody minds.

I am with my girlfriend for 4 years, but in the last 12 months she has been questioning if she is lesbian or bi. After sitting down and talking about it she came to the realisation that its not straight or even bi men she likes but ftm's, especially larger ones, she has a serious crush on Chaz Bono.
I don't mind this because I know we are in a strong relationship but I am curious to know if she is lesbian, bi or something else?

Killer_banana · 02-07-2011 12:27PM

Labels mean different things to different people and can be interpreted so many ways that there is no one definitive label for every person. She's whatever she chooses to call herself really, if she chooses to call herself anything. I spend ages trying to find a label to fit my sexuality and eventually I realised I'm me. I may like people of both genders but I odn't see them that way, I see them as people so yeah....I've lost my train of thought but I think you get my point.

Ambersky · 02-07-2011 03:40PM

If I were in a relationship with your girlfriend I would be concerned too.
You seem concerned enough to come on here and start this thread so you seem to be feeling some anxiety and wondering about the implications of these revelations.
No matter who your girlfriend is exploring her attractions to, my concern would be that its an attraction to someone other than the person she is actually in a relationship with and thats you.

Your job is not to figure out, or assist her in figuring out her sexual identity.
Your job is to know what you yourself want in a relationship and to know yourself well enough to know what you are willing to give and what you are willing to take.
Do you have a bottom line, how far does your girlfriend have to go before you say this is not the kind of relationship I want.

If she is in a relationship with you her romantic sexual focus should be on developing that and living it with you.

In my opinion the issue of whether she likes men or FTMs as well as women
is just a distraction to worry about rather than thinking about the fact that she is not satisfied with simply being with you.
Sorry sometimes being in love is just not enough.
Dont let being in love lead you down the road of being treated in a way than is less than you deserve.

Thats just my immediate take on this I could be wrong, take it or leave it.

stephen_n · 02-07-2011 04:35PM

Ambersky wrote: »

If I were in a relationship with your girlfriend I would be

In my opinion the issue of whether she likes men or FTMs as well as women
is just a distraction to worry about rather than thinking about the fact that she is not satisfied with simply being with you.
Sorry sometimes being in love is just not enough.
Dont let being in love lead you down the road of being treated in a way than is less than you deserve.

Thats just my immediate take on this I could be wrong, take it or leave it.

Slow down there holy **** talk about projecting your own issues all over the place. You really might want to slow down before dumping your own insecurities all over the place.

She never mentioned her partner expressing any interest in perusing this all that the OP said was that her partner was curios about her sexual attractions and that she was asking advice from others who might have similar attractions! So does this mean that because your attracted to men/women which ever is applicable that you are untrustworthy in a relationship????

Typical biphobic bull to be honest!

apache · 02-07-2011 07:46PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Slow down there holy **** talk about projecting your own issues all over the place. You really might want to slow down before dumping your own insecurities all over the place.

She never mentioned her partner expressing any interest in perusing this all that the OP said was that her partner was curios about her sexual attractions and that she was asking advice from others who might have similar attractions! So does this mean that because your attracted to men/women which ever is applicable that you are untrustworthy in a relationship????

Typical biphobic bull to be honest!

i think thats a bit harsh in calling ambersky biphobic and having issues and insecurities!

LegacyUser · 02-07-2011 08:18PM

Thanks for taking the time to reply but my girlfriends loyalty is not at question here and to be honest its nobody's business!
And Ambersky, I NEVER said I was concerned! I asked if she was lesbian or bi or something else! Where the hell do you get off telling me that I am facilitating her to figure out who she will leave me for? Are you for real? Whatever problems you have or had with your partner then you need to deal with that. just don't assume that every lesbian is going to cheat!

Ambersky · 02-07-2011 08:45PM

I am saying that it’s an individuals job to figure out their own sexual identity.
It’s not your partners job to figure out your identity.
You can have the potential to be attracted to any variation of people you like but once you have chosen someone to be involved with it is that person you are involved with, whatever their gender, unless you have both agreed to a more open relationship.

If her girlfriend really wants to explore other aspects of her sexual identity and find answers to the questions raised by her other attractions how is she going to do that and maintain a relationship with the OP?

Within a monogamous relationship it is a good idea to know and have an agreed bottom line with regard to attractions to others outside of that relationship.
The OP has been with her girlfriend four years and for one of these, a quarter of their time together, she has been looking around and trying to figure out who she is attracted to.
Thats kind of an ongoing thing a bit persistant for a mild curiousity.
If the Ops girlfriend had spent that year looking around and questioning whether she wanted to be with the Op or a variety of other women, while simultaneously engaging in the fantasy of a serious crush on some other unobtainable woman I would still be questioning how available and committed she actually is to the relationship she is in.

To my mind it shouldn’t matter to the OP if her girlfriend wants to explore attractions to men or other women, thats not the question in my mind.
The girlfriends identity is a question only she can answer.
The Op needs to figure out as we all do what is her own personal bottom line, what does she consider appropriate in handling attractions to others while in a relationship.
Maybe the OP has already figured out where she stands on this issue and just didnt post about it yet but it is an issue that would need to be addressed in such a situation.

stephen_n · 02-07-2011 10:36PM

So what your saying is the only possible way to explore attraction is to act sexually, very strange concept that to work out a state of mind you need to engage in a physical act. Never anywhere in the original post was it mentioned about acting on this attraction in fact the complete opposite was intoned but yet as soon as the mention is made of a possible bi attraction it is automatically assumed by some, that bi people can't possibly have these feelings, thoughts without acting on them. As after all bi people are just greedy over sexed human beings incapeable of monogomy and anyone involved in a relationship with them should be wary but no there was no suggestion of biphobia in that post at all! The OP's partner is being straight up and honest with her about her curiosity of this attraction if anything the OP should be reassured by this not worried by it.

Ambersky · 03-07-2011 01:21AM

No stephen-n if anything I think my advice to the OP to be clear on her own bottom line is more obviously necessary if her girlfriend had spent the last year trying to figure out what other women she was attracted to and was simultaneously engaging in the fantasy of a serious crush on some other unobtainable woman.
The issue I think needs addressing, as I keep saying, is not about the gender of the person the girfriend is feeling attracted to.
Its about knowing and maintaining your own healthy boundaries.

I have come to the conclusion that it is no harm to just be prepared and know your own bottom line in any relationship.
It gives the other person something and someone to respect.
Just because I am saying you need to have a line doesnt mean that it will cause a break up, having that line and knowing where it is can save a relationship.

You may also be right that the OP does not find herself addressing the issues Im talking about and her girlfriend may just decide to keep her exploration of her sexuality and attractions at the visual and mental level.
And stephen-n its not only bisexuals who often feel that their sexual orientation can not just be figured out on a mental level and feel the need to explore it physically before coming to a conclusion.
Oops Just saw the Ops second post which came up when I was writing a reply.
Well I appear to be hitting nerves all over the place here and it seems I better not suggest theres any need to be prepared in case anyone might just go off and act on any attraction to anyone other than their partner. Cos obviously that kind of thing never happens and if I think Ive seen it happen a few times well that just makes me sad.
The cheek of me for even suggesting it:D

Glasgay getting back to your origional question it appears your girlfriend is Bisexual, attracted to both women and men.
FTM people are men, your girlfriend is a woman she is attracted to certain men and to women or at least you, what is the question you have about that .

stephen_n · 03-07-2011 08:17AM

So the gist of your post boils down to a scenario that any sort of phantasy is dangerous ground and that anyone who's partner has a crush or phantasy on anyone, gender or possibly an ideal would need to be laying down strict ground rules about what is and what isn't allowed?? I've got news for you, you may need to draw up a written contract for your partner/future partners so as nearly everyone does it, just go take a look at the who makes you drool
Thread or is everyone who posts in there a risk in a relationship? Also has it occured to you that the act of sex and the object are not always related in the psyche, just because there is some sort of attraction to FTM it does not suggest for one second that the op's partner is attracted to men.

OP your GF's attraction may represent something else to her other than a sexual desire. A FTM may represent at an unconscious level something she desires that is non sexual* ie a baby. This is assuming the penis has two basic functions the second of which is procreation. Your GF is attracted to women but if she was at some level yearning for a child which is possible 4 years into a relationship her unconscious may be trying to resolve the two disparate issues, what she is and what she wants. This of course entails the objectification of FTM trans people but I don't think the UnConcious mind is really that concerned with the nicety's that our more socialized conscious mind observes! Of course this is just a theory as I know nothing about you or your GF but it is a possible one given a lot of research into human sexuality from a Freudian perspective.

*sex and sexuality can at times be separate issues in my opinion!

bodice ripper · 03-07-2011 11:14AM

Ambersky wrote: »

If I were in a relationship with your girlfriend I would be concerned too.
You seem concerned enough to come on here and start this thread so you seem to be feeling some anxiety and wondering about the implications of these revelations.
No matter who your girlfriend is exploring her attractions to, my concern would be that its an attraction to someone other than the person she is actually in a relationship with and thats you.

Your job is not to figure out, or assist her in figuring out her sexual identity.
Your job is to know what you yourself want in a relationship and to know yourself well enough to know what you are willing to give and what you are willing to take.
Do you have a bottom line, how far does your girlfriend have to go before you say this is not the kind of relationship I want.

If she is in a relationship with you her romantic sexual focus should be on developing that and living it with you.

In my opinion the issue of whether she likes men or FTMs as well as women
is just a distraction to worry about rather than thinking about the fact that she is not satisfied with simply being with you.
Sorry sometimes being in love is just not enough.
Dont let being in love lead you down the road of being treated in a way than is less than you deserve.

Thats just my immediate take on this I could be wrong, take it or leave it.

I am sorry but this response come accross as hysterical and biphobic. Perhaps the biphobia requires a little reading into the post, but the fact remains that once you take gender of equation here, your post becomes one of those mad ones you occasionally see in PI where one woman in 15 is advising an op to be gravely concerned about a partner watching porn or finding other women attractive.

My girlfriend likes black women a great deal. It is part of who she is, and has nothing to do with me. In fact, it makes her more attractive to me because I find those things which make her different to myself very appealing

Ambersky · 03-07-2011 01:19PM

bodice ripper said
Perhaps the biphobia requires a little reading into the post

Yes it does require a little reading into my post because I have posted and clarified several times that I think the issue of the gender of the person the OPs girlfriend is attracted to is irrelavent.

The OP seemingly only wants to know

but I am curious to know if she is lesbian, bi or something else?

which is a funny question because only the girlfriend can answer that one, we can all speculate but it seems the OP hasnt come to a conclusion herself on that one.
So.

If everyone is happy that they dont need to discuss bottom lines when dealing with the issue of attractions to others while in a relationship and believes that all this can and usually is dealt with on a mental level and you dont need to be prepared for if there is a desire to take it to a physical level, to really find out who you are.....absolutely fine
Obviously it upset a few people to bring this up

In dealing with it the issue the OP actually brought up

stephen-n says
just because there is some sort of attraction to FTM it does not suggest for one second that the op's partner is attracted to men.

Umm am I getting things completely wrong here again or are FTM not men?
Is that not a difficulty they have in that some people still like to think of them as women with a penis?
Is that not insulting to a trans person to not take the gender that they have fought so hard to have recogniton of taken seriously.
Would you say the same thing about a MTF and say that no where here was a woman being talked about?

Maybe after all this it isnt the individuals exploring attraction outside of their relationships or the bisexuals who are being offended here .
Maybe its the female to males whos very maleness isnt being taken seriously.

apache · 03-07-2011 02:36PM

Glasgay wrote: »

I want to post this anonymous, I hope nobody minds.

I am with my girlfriend for 4 years, but in the last 12 months she has been questioning if she is lesbian or bi. After sitting down and talking about it she came to the realisation that its not straight or even bi men she likes but ftm's, especially larger ones, she has a serious crush on Chaz Bono.
I don't mind this because I know we are in a strong relationship but I am curious to know if she is lesbian, bi or something else?

i know lesbians who find some drag queens attractive and ftms. me included. i wouldn't worry about it.

stephen_n · 04-07-2011 02:06PM

Ambersky wrote: »

Umm am I getting things completely wrong here again or are FTM not men?
Is that not a difficulty they have in that some people still like to think of them as women with a penis?
Is that not insulting to a trans person to not take the gender that they have fought so hard to have recogniton of taken seriously.
Would you say the same thing about a MTF and say that no where here was a woman being talked about?

Maybe after all this it isnt the individuals exploring attraction outside of their relationships or the bisexuals who are being offended here .
Maybe its the female to males whos very maleness isnt being taken seriously.

Clearly you haven't actually bothered to read what I posted or else are not capeable of understanding it, so I'll leave you to read it again and would draw your attention in particular to the part I marked out about the difference between the unconscious and conscious minds. If you want to persist with trying to muddy the waters then and deflect from the ignorance of your original post I will continue to discuss this but as it stands you are just being silly.

Ambersky · 04-07-2011 07:00PM

No Stephen-n I have read your Freudian analysis

just because there is some sort of attraction to FTM it does not suggest for one second that the op's partner is attracted to men.

OP your GF's attraction may represent something else to her other than a sexual desire. A FTM may represent at an unconscious level something she desires that is non sexual* ie a baby. This is assuming the penis has two basic functions the second of which is procreation. Your GF is attracted to women but if she was at some level yearning for a child which is possible 4 years into a relationship her unconscious may be trying to resolve the two disparate issues, what she is and what she wants. This of course entails the objectification of FTM trans people but I don't think the UnConcious mind is really that concerned with the nicety's that our more socialized conscious mind observes! Of course this is just a theory as I know nothing about you or your GF but it is a possible one given a lot of research into human sexuality from a Freudian perspective.

What a load of nonsense “this of course involves the objectification of FTM” but thats ok cos I can excuse that with a little help from Freud of all people.
Let me repeat, female to male transmen are men Stephen-n.
And if the Ops girlfriend is saying she is attracted to them lets at least give her and the FTM men the respect of believing that attraction and not trying to psychoanalyse it away.
You may not agree with my advice on finding a bottom line in relation to other attractions while in a relationship but at least I give the people who are being found attractive the respect of taking it seriously as an attraction.

Oh yes and the patronising tone in your replys to my posts all make sense now.

stephen_n · 04-07-2011 07:21PM

Ambersky wrote: »

No Stephen-n I have read your Freudian analysis

What a load of nonsense “this of course involves the objectification of FTM” but thats ok cos I can excuse that with a little help from Freud of all people.
Let me repeat, female to male transmen are men Stephen-n.
And if the Ops girlfriend is saying she is attracted to them lets at least give her and the FTM men the respect of believing that attraction and not trying to psychoanalyse it away.
You may not agree with my advice on finding a bottom line in relation to other attractions while in a relationship but at least I give the people who are being found attractive the respect of taking it seriously as an attraction.

Oh yes and the patronising tone in your replys to my posts all make sense now.

What I am saying is that attraction to and physical interaction with are two completely seperate issues. Attraction is not merely based on the need for purely sexual gratification. I am glad though that you are so well versed in other peoples attractions that you can question peoples ability for monogomy based on them. I'm sorry if you find my replies patronising maybe it has something to do with the fact your comments are down right offensive which is clearly not a view that is mine alone. My initial point stands, the OP asked advise from people who had experienced or might have experienced similar attractions and you weighed in questioning the security of her relationship based on the fact that her partner felt attracted to ftm people. So by your reckoning and I think I'm right in guessing that you are a woman who identifies as lesbian that your partner should really bet setting down a bottom line with you around other women? or does it not apply to people who only feel attraction to one gender or one sexual identification.

Ambersky · 04-07-2011 08:10PM

The title of this thread is Lesbian Girlfriend likes FTMs
I have posted extensively on what I have to say clarifying what I am and what I am not saying.
You stephen-n have been putting all your energy into patronising replies to my posts, exaggerating and rewording what I have to say.
And perhaps as is usual your patronising tone has actually more to do with you than with me. Psychoanalyse that!:rolleyes:
Now it seems you have taken your attention off me for long enough to let us hear what you have to say to the OP

just because there is some sort of attraction to FTM it does not suggest for one second that the op's partner is attracted to men.

OP your GF's attraction may represent something else to her other than a sexual desire. A FTM may represent at an unconscious level something she desires that is non sexual* ie a baby. This is assuming the penis has two basic functions the second of which is procreation. Your GF is attracted to women but if she was at some level yearning for a child which is possible 4 years into a relationship her unconscious may be trying to resolve the two disparate issues, what she is and what she wants. This of course entails the objectification of FTM trans people but I don't think the UnConcious mind is really that concerned with the nicety's that our more socialized conscious mind observes! Of course this is just a theory as I know nothing about you or your GF but it is a possible one given a lot of research into human sexuality from a Freudian perspective.

What a load of nonsense “this of course involves the objectification of FTM” but thats ok cos I can excuse that with a little help from Freud of all people.
Let me repeat, female to male transmen are men Stephen-n.
And if the Ops girlfriend is saying she is attracted to them lets at least give her and the FTM men the respect of believing that attraction and not trying to psychoanalyse it away.
You may not agree with my advice on finding a bottom line, or in other words having clearly understood boundaries, in relation to attractions while in a relationship but at least I give the people who are being found attractive the respect of taking it seriously as an attraction.

And all you have to say to my criticism of your advice is “that attraction to and physical interaction with are two completely seperate issues”.
Which
(a) I agree with but you have been so busy getting your knickers in a twist you haven’t been able to hear.
( b) Doesnt address the issue that you completely tried to psychoanalyse away the Ops girlfriends attraction to Transmen saying of all things

just because there is some sort of attraction to FTM it does not suggest for one second that the op's partner is attracted to men.

It seems your great at tearing other peoples posts apart but not so great when asked to actually say something yourself,
because Stephen-n your advice or psychoanalysis of the Ops post was a load of nonsense and you know it.

On the comment

I'm sorry if you find my replies patronising maybe it has something to do with the fact your comments are down right offensive which is clearly not a view that is mine alone

(a) Thats not an apology but its in keeping with the tone of your posts.
(b) Do you really need the reassurance of a gang behind you, because we know the kind of people who need that.

apache · 05-07-2011 08:04AM

if you are really going to analyse it deeply and be all politically correct and really think these things through then yes you are right ambersky it is objectifying.

it is not meant to be and just a fantasy thought but yes it is objectifying.

however i know some pre op ftms that do not have a problem with that sort of lesbian fantasy and actually encourage it.

i should know. one of them took my innocence away.

it was great!

i can't see their brain changing when they are post op?

Links234 · 05-07-2011 09:44AM

apache wrote: »

if you are really going to analyse it deeply and be all politically correct and really think these things through then yes you are right ambersky it is objectifying.

it's "politically correct" to think that trans men are actually male?

apache wrote: »

i can't see their brain changing when they are post op?

nope, they're already male:

White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study.

Meesared · 05-07-2011 10:12AM

Links234 wrote: »

it's "politically correct" to think that trans men are actually male?

nope, they're already male:

White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study.

No offence Links but you seem to be finding offence where there is none?

Links234 · 05-07-2011 10:14AM

Meesared wrote: »

No offence Links but you seem to be finding offence where there is none?

I'm just making a point, not really taking offence.

Ambersky · 05-07-2011 11:33AM

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Links234
Yes trans men are male.
Wow! I cant get over how here on the LGBT forum it has been so difficult to establish or reach agreement on that.
Can we agree on that, or is anyone else going to be offended or thinking Im offended or calling political correctness?

apache · 05-07-2011 11:34AM

Links234 wrote: »

it's "politically correct" to think that trans men are actually male?

nope, they're already male:

White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study.

no i never said that. i was talking about sexually objectifying people regardless of gender. there is a huge difference.
you yourself do it in that drooling thread. we all do it. men and women straight, gay bi or trans. it is politically incorrect to objectify people as sexual beings but we do and i don't give a toss about it. i'll keep on doing it. its natural. maybe you should stop posting in that thread in case you offend someone :rolleyes:

i really find you quite tiring. it just seems you just wait until a thread like this surfaces and then stick your oar in no matter how misguided you are.

i don't need your trans lesson. i am well aware of who they are.

apache · 05-07-2011 11:37AM

Ambersky wrote: »

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Links234
Yes trans men are male.
Wow! I cant get over how here on the LGBT forum it has been so difficult to establish or reach agreement on that.
Can we agree on that, or is anyone else going to be offended or thinking Im offended or calling political correctness?

i'm not disagreeing with that point.

Meesared · 05-07-2011 11:40AM

Ambersky wrote: »

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Links234
Yes trans men are male.
Wow! I cant get over how here on the LGBT forum it has been so difficult to establish or reach agreement on that.
Can we agree on that, or is anyone else going to be offended or thinking Im offended or calling political correctness?

I dont think anyone said they werent...

Links234 · 05-07-2011 12:07PM

apache wrote: »

i really find you quite tiring. it just seems you just wait until a thread like this surfaces and then stick your oar in no matter how misguided you are.

a lemon by any other name would taste as bitter

Warner · 05-07-2011 12:14PM

I dont usually post here but I have a special interest in this subject and
I cant believe the kinds of things that are being said here about Trans men.
Stephen-n I hope you are not a mental health care professional.

stephen-n says
just because there is some sort of attraction to FTM it does not suggest for one second that the op's partner is attracted to men.

For anyone who may be Trans or questioning whether they are, please believe that some people within the profession have moved on a bit and will believe you when you say you are a man.
If you find you are not being understood or someone is trying to psychoanalyse your experience away, just change your therapist.

Perhaps on this issue the people we should be listening to are the Trans Men themselves and can we just take it that they are men, at least here on the LGBT forum.

This thread was about a Lesbian whos girlfriend was attracted to Trans Men.
Only the girlfriend can discover for herself what that says about her sexuality but maybe it would be useful for Lesbians to have a listen to what Trans Men have to say about that attraction.

Now of course the opinions on that matter are going to differ.
For any of you who have had the experience of being misunderstood, dismissed, not listened to, or rejected, Im sure you will know that it is important to at least listen to what someone is saying to you.

Not all Trans Men are going to like Lesbian attention particularly those who feel the Lesbians are not actually taking in the fact that they are Men. Some are going to like the Lesbian attention but there is a lot to say on the matter.
Just because you have gone out with a Trans Man does not mean you are an expert.

This is all relatively new territory and there are very few of us experts so lets try to listen and try to understand what someone who differs from us is saying.
Then agree or disagree but all this offence response is really not useful.

This is the clearest video on the subject I could find. A reminder you may disagree with him and other Trans Men may not be as adament but at least listen to the issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvADP-LgmGc

And here is a Lesbian womans who is in a relationship with a Trans Mans response.

Meesared · 05-07-2011 12:15PM

Links234 wrote: »

a lemon by any other name would taste as bitter

Now this is getting silly

stephen_n · 05-07-2011 12:15PM

Ambersky wrote: »

The title of this thread is Lesbian Girlfriend likes FTMs
I have posted extensively on what I have to say clarifying what I am and what I am not saying.
You stephen-n have been putting all your energy into patronising replies to my posts, exaggerating and rewording what I have to say.
And perhaps as is usual your patronising tone has actually more to do with you than with me. Psychoanalyse that!:rolleyes:
Now it seems you have taken your attention off me for long enough to let us hear what you have to say to the OP

What a load of nonsense “this of course involves the objectification of FTM” but thats ok cos I can excuse that with a little help from Freud of all people.
Let me repeat, female to male transmen are men Stephen-n.
And if the Ops girlfriend is saying she is attracted to them lets at least give her and the FTM men the respect of believing that attraction and not trying to psychoanalyse it away.
You may not agree with my advice on finding a bottom line, or in other words having clearly understood boundaries, in relation to attractions while in a relationship but at least I give the people who are being found attractive the respect of taking it seriously as an attraction.

And all you have to say to my criticism of your advice is “that attraction to and physical interaction with are two completely seperate issues”.
Which
(a) I agree with but you have been so busy getting your knickers in a twist you haven’t been able to hear.
( b) Doesnt address the issue that you completely tried to psychoanalyse away the Ops girlfriends attraction to Transmen saying of all things

It seems your great at tearing other peoples posts apart but not so great when asked to actually say something yourself,
because Stephen-n your advice or psychoanalysis of the Ops post was a load of nonsense and you know it.

On the comment

(a) Thats not an apology but its in keeping with the tone of your posts.
(b) Do you really need the reassurance of a gang behind you, because we know the kind of people who need that.

OK Clearly you don't understand why I took offence to your comments and nor can you see how you are being Bi-Phobic. So I'll break it down as simply as I can for you. Your post suggests and this is not a matter of opinion it is simply what you posted. That there were no ground rules required when the OP's partner was attracted to women but as soon as she expressed an interest in FTM then ground rules were required as this would make her partner bi and therfore untrustworthy. Now, saying your comments aren't bi-phobic is equivalent to the argument sure, I'm not homophobic I know loads of queers they are perfectly fine as long as they don't touch me.

As for trying to muddy the waters, objectification is part of attraction as 70 plus page thread on who makes you drool would clearly suggest, which objectifies plenty of different physical attributes. You want to zone in on one then work away. You want to make out that the whole area of attraction is black and white and that some of the reasons for attraction are unconscious, base and not concerned with the niceties of life or who it offends well then good luck with that, to me that is just ignorance. The thought police will be along shortly to arrest most of the posters here for objectifying women for having breasts, men for having chiseled abs or any of the other myriad of things that form attraction.

As for psychoanalysing, obviously another little hang up but something clearly you have no understanding of whatsoever. Personally I don't believe there is any benefit to an analysis but it is something that takes a huge volume of time to do and can't be based on one or two posts on an internet forum. I however posted one possible hypothesis for the OP to consider and see how it fits but obviously you can't tell the difference between advice, psychoanlysis or in your case autocratic comment.

This is also going off topic massively so if you have anything else to say I'd suggest PM!

stephen_n · 05-07-2011 12:27PM

Warner wrote: »

I dont usually post here but I have a special interest in this subject and
I cant believe the kinds of things that are being said here about Trans men.
Stephen-n I hope you are not a mental health care professional.

For anyone who may be Trans or questioning whether they are, please believe that some people within the profession have moved on a bit and will believe you when you say you are a man.
If you find you are not being understood or someone is trying to psychoanalyse your experience away, just change your therapist.

Perhaps on this issue the people we should be listening to are the Trans Men themselves and can we just take it that they are men, at least here on the LGBT forum.

This thread was about a Lesbian whos girlfriend was attracted to Trans Men.
Only the girlfriend can discover for herself what that says about her sexuality but maybe it would be useful for Lesbians to have a listen to what Trans Men have to say about that attraction.

Now of course the opinions on that matter are going to differ.
For any of you who have had the experience of being misunderstood, dismissed, not listened to, or rejected, Im sure you will know that it is important to at least listen to what someone is saying to you.

Not all Trans Men are going to like Lesbian attention particularly those who feel the Lesbians are not actually taking in the fact that they are Men. Some are going to like the Lesbian attention but there is a lot to say on the matter.
Just because you have gone out with a Trans Man does not mean you are an expert.

This is all relatively new territory and there are very few of us experts so lets try to listen and try to understand what someone who differs from us is saying.
Then agree or disagree but all this offence response is really not useful.

This is the clearest video on the subject I could find. A reminder you may disagree with him and other Trans Men may not be as adament but at least listen to the issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvADP-LgmGc

And here is a Lesbian womans who is in a relationship with a Trans Mans response.

In no way did I question that FTM trans men are men but you clearly are attributing the same qualities to unconscious mind that apply to the conscious mind and I fail too see how you could miss where I made the clear difference between this in my post. Psychotherapy does in no way try to analyze away the experience of trans men and nor would I or did I. I suggested an exploration of the attraction which is in no way a comment on the validity of trans identity and I really fail to see how you can get that from what I posted. Why we are attracted to each other is not even an issue of sexuality it is a deeply individual thing and how you can take offence about someones attraction is really beyond me.

Annasopra · 05-07-2011 01:11PM

Ambersky/Stephen n - I understand both of you have differing viewpoints but could you both please try and address them calmly. If you don't think you can do that please pm each other.

Apache/Links - stop having a go at each other. Take your issues with each other to pm or else report any problematic posts.

As per the forum charter please pm me if you want to discuss this warning.

Ambersky · 05-07-2011 03:25PM

Johnnymcq I agree
I think I have said all I want to say to stephen-n, anything further would just be rehashing old ground and defending rewordings of my old posts, of things I didnt say.
So thats it if I have anything further to say to stephen-n I will pm him.;)

So to get back on topic which is Lesbian girlfriend likes ftm's

Thank you Warner I havent seen videos like those before, I have read some discussions online but it is interesting to actually see people who are living the situation talk about whats going on for them.
The first video Dont Date Lesbians!! is a bit confrontational.
At first I thought it was going to be anti lesbian but I dont think it is.
Its definitely given me a lot to think about.
In fact I wasnt able to listen to the second video fully yet because Im still trying to think about the first one.

Anyway thanks for cutting through the nonsense and bringing us back to the topic of what does it mean for a lesbian to like ftm's

baby and crumble · 05-07-2011 08:39PM

I remember a thread a while back (or maybe it was a PM discussion, I can't remember) where we discussed lesbians staying with their partner (whom the met as female and began a lesbian relationship with) who then transitioned. I remember thinking that it was quite disrespectful to expect your partner, who is attracted to females, to stay with you in a romantic/sexual way, and then to regard them as shallow if they didn't. I also remember thinking that if I were trans, and my girlfriend still identified as lesbian after my transition, it would show a complete lack of understanding and respect for who i was.

Obviously a person becoming aware of an attraction they didn't previously recognise (like finding men- and FTM's ARE men- attractive) is no big deal in a relationship, unless it causes the person to want to stray. In this case, the OP has said that's not an issue. So this is just like being in a straight relationship and realising you like girls too, or whatever it may be. Yes, some idiots may use that as an excuse to stray, but then they're idiots, and not representative as a whole of bisexual people.

Perhaps, OP, your gf is attracted to a hyper masculinised presentation? I mean no disrespect, but many of the trans individuals I have come across initially (once given the space and ability to start their transition) create a hyper form of presentation of the gender they are,perhaps because they haven't been able to express it for so long. Many mtf tans women are often very very feminine in their presentation for a period of time, perhaps because too of the surge of hormones they have to deal with- same with ftm guys.

I dunno, just my opinion. The long and the short of it is, her liking ftm guys doesn't mean she's gonna run off with Chaz Bono, just like me fancying one of my office mates means I'm going to try score her behind my gf's back. Human sexuality is constantly evolving, and this is just another iteration of it.

Ambersky · 05-07-2011 09:19PM

baby and crumble you seem to have been thinking about this topic for a little longer than I and you seem to bring a nice balance to the discussion.
Since viewing those two videos posted by Warner Ive been surfing YouTube and findng other videos on the topic.
Yikes theres a whole world of videos on the topic out there.
Theres loads to think about and my head is on a bit of overload but here is a video I came across from someone who talks a bit about that issue you were mentioning of presentation of genders, in another way.
Interesting.

Kanoe · 05-07-2011 10:03PM

my daughter has been following twinfools for a couple of years now and has been keeping me updated on his transition since it began. She totally crushed on him before the transition but still has a "thing" for him now, although she did prefer when he was she

http://www.youtube.com/user/twinfools

[and I can totally see why]

oh and she's totally straight

MsBojangles · 05-07-2011 11:11PM

Kanoe wrote: »

oh and she's totally straight

Who? in the video?

Annasopra · 05-07-2011 11:12PM

MsBojangles wrote: »

Who? in the video?

Kanoes daughter

Kanoe · 06-07-2011 02:15PM

went through twinfools videos again last night and they cover a lot of topics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVWYRn6s3Y

touches on labels and relationshipsand , from a ftm partners perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ADkJQ2069A

this couple have been together years, very sweet and their vlog is very informative and deals a lot with their relationship and the changes they went through together.

apache · 06-07-2011 04:05PM

some girls do some girls don't.
some boys do some boys don't.

i think everybodies experience is different and that is what i am ultimately trying to say. their needs and wants are different. they all sail in their own boat.

Lesbian girlfriend likes ftm's

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