Download Illegally? You're no better than the looters.

Frank Black · 12-08-2011 01:04PM

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'm getting at how I would like to know if anybody else wonders why people refer to the distribution of copyrighted works with out permission is referred to with the same word as acts of war by private parties at sea.

Because when we download stuff we dress with eye patches and stuffed parrots on shoulders and say "arrr" at lot- at least I do and I had assumed most others did as well.

o1s1n · 12-08-2011 01:05PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What ?

It's called "Copyright".......the clue is in the name : the "right" to "copy".

When you buy the CD, it is printed on it that "the right to copy" remains with the copyright holder.

When you "download" the file, you're making a copy (whoever uploaded it already broke to copyright law, but so did you, because their "copy" is still on the web server).

Yes, therefore it's illegal as it's breaking copywrite law. I never said it wasn't.

I said it wasn't 'stealing'.

godspal · 12-08-2011 01:06PM

Downloading illegally and terrorising people in their homes, destroying their place of business and tying up millions of euro worth of police forces are not even remotely similar.

And the artist aspect is a load of bollocks. 15% of all sales go to the artist. So for every €20 you spend on an album you will only be handing over €3 to an artist, and €17 to publishers and distributors. Studio executives garnish artist income to cover video costs, recording costs and distribution costs. If an album doesn't go gold an artist is very unlikely to see money from the release of an album.
Artist make money from touring, t-shirts, appearances on TV shows etc. So by simply listening to their music and becoming a fan, you are more likely to be giving them money in the long run.

As for movies, movies make a large proportion of their income from box-office sales, and I have no problem paying that bit extra for the experience of the cinema. Also the movie industry have been much more accommodating to technology than the music industry, you pay a set fee for a month and have unlimited access to movies. While i-tunes charge $1.00 a song, to download a whole album costs $10, that's an outrageous mark-up.

As for copyright law, copyright law is completely dated. Patents, and intellectual property were originally designed to protect individuals such as Edison, Tesla etc. Now that we live in a hyper-state of capitalism, most of the patents in the world (99.9%) are owned by a handful of multi-national companies who only care about profits, who spew out propaganda to say that illegal downloading is causing them to lay-off staff etc. NO! Companies, 100s of them, make record profits for one year because they lay-off loads of their staff, because they stretch their human resources to the limit. Companies see their workers on the same level as something like fuel, make it work as cheaply and efficiently as possible and **** the consequences.

Copying an album from these nameless companies is completely different than breaking into your local shop where you know the person behind the counter, and have caused their business to close, which they were making a living from. This completely different from knocking down the window of Foot Locker and causing the shop to be out of stock and unable to open again for weeks, meaning that 6-7 people will not have work for weeks.

Illegal downloading you only stop rich people from buying a second yacht. Looting you destroy people's livelihoods.

MungBean · 12-08-2011 01:08PM

You cant compare downloading an album illegally to smashing a shop window and taking a CD you just cant. Just because both end with someone getting a CD for free doesnt mean the act of getting it is the same.

So once we all realise the question is stupid then we are left with a run of the mill "whats wrong with piracy" thread.

Answer = its illegal but you cant stop it.

On the moral side I see nothing wrong with illegal downloading as long as your not making a financial gain from it. Its just copying something so you dont have to buy it. Your not stealing anything your just not buying it, if you were not gonna buy it either way it doesnt change one damn thing, the artist doesnt lose anything or doesnt miss out on anything.

Online nobody can own information. Its all 1's and 0's. If I wanna make my 1'S and 0's the same as theirs who the fuk are they to say I cant just because they had their 1's and 0's that way first ?

twinQuins · 12-08-2011 01:08PM

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'm getting at how I would like to know if anybody else wonders why people refer to the distribution of copyrighted works with out permission is referred to with the same word as acts of war by private parties at sea.

Actually, I believe it was an attempt to conflate copyright infringers with the more traditional pirates who sold bootleg copies.
Also, no doubt, because "copyright infringement" doesn't sound quite so nefarious.

AeoNGriM · 12-08-2011 01:13PM

I don't download music or movies, but I do download PC games. Here's why.

Firstly, a lot are tied into Steam accounts and such like, and almost all require serial keys for online functionality so PC games cannot be sold second hand like console games.

The vast majority of PC games don't have a playable demo, and aren't available to rent so I cannot try them before I buy them.

More and more PC games are ported from the console (XBox) version, which saves the developer a lot of money, but results in really dodgy controls, dumbed down game mechanics, left-out features and sub-par graphics.

Stealing or no, I'm not forking out money on a game I cannot resell if I don't like it, or if the developer releases a crappy version ported from consoles so I simply download a pirated version so I can try before I buy. That's the key here, if the game is good, and I'm enjoying it I'll buy the full version, if not, I'll uninstall and delete it.

orangebud · 12-08-2011 01:18PM

its human nature to copy stuff my earliest memory is recording Wacko Jackson of the radio

Anyways most music and movies are rubbish today

Super Hans: [on handing Jeremy a bar of chocolate] There you go, free munchies.
Jeremy Usborne: Did you just nick this?
Super Hans: 'Course I did. They should be paying me to eat this Sh1t.
Jeremy Usborne: Wow, free choco. Mmm, tasty.
Super Hans: The secret ingredient is crime.

RichieC · 12-08-2011 01:22PM

Bands who get ripped off by their music being downloaded are still very rich.

They make their money with concerts as they always have. You can't download the concert experience...yet.

I agree it is in a sense theft, but to equate it with mindless hooliganism and looting is just wrong.

Kiith · 12-08-2011 01:25PM

My downloading doesnt murder 5 people in the last week.

Downloading is illegal, yeah. But it's nowhere near the same level of what's going on at the moment in the UK.

carwash106 · 12-08-2011 01:29PM

bpb101 wrote: »

im not saying i illegal download but

if there a film eg the hangover 2
and all your friends are going to see it , and you havent seen the first one , the film would make no sense to you ,
so th night before you illegal download the first film and then you watch the second 1 in the cinema , thus giving money to the company

??!!? Haha I can't tell if your being funny or not but you're practically watching the same movie when you're watching either one.

Which raises two points:

Are the movie companies stealing from us by basically showing the exact same movie that we already went to go see when we watched hthe first hangover
If you download and watch hangover 1 does that also mean you downloaded and watched hangover 2 because they are the same movie?

13spanner · 12-08-2011 01:30PM

Ok, hypothetically

, if I sat at home and dowloaded a handful of songs, who gets hurt? Some producer takes a hit of a few quid, nothing compared to what they've already made. Doesn't bother me morally.

Again, hypothetically, if I went out armed with a few bricks and an appetite for destruction, you just cannot compare the two!

Dyr · 12-08-2011 01:32PM

Alter-Ego wrote: »

Yeah, because putting a bin through the window of Carphone Warehouse window is exactly the same as downloading Phil Collins' Greatest Hits.

Downloading Phil Collins' stuff is a far more heinous crime :mad:

MungBean · 12-08-2011 01:33PM

13spanner wrote: »

Ok, hypothetically , if I sat at home and dowloaded a handful of songs, who gets hurt? Some producer takes a hit of a few quid, nothing compared to what they've already made. Doesn't bother me morally.

Again, hypothetically, if I went out armed with a few bricks and an appetite for destruction, you just cannot compare the two!

Only if you decided to download instead of buy. If you had no plans of buying the CD anyway then nobody takes a hit for anything, you just get some songs to listen to.

paddyandy · 12-08-2011 01:34PM

There should be clear signs or marks on material some people have very sensitive consciences and would'nt knowingly steal anything no matter how small the value.I've pics on my hd that i worry about.There's someones livelihood there but how do you know ??Grey areas.

cosmicfart · 12-08-2011 01:35PM

wild_cat wrote: »

We never actually take the original though. When looting you actually remove the item. We just copy.

lol lame attempt at justifying the use off modern technology as a way of not stealing to ease ur conscience, which you clearly dont have!

Leeg17 · 12-08-2011 01:35PM

I wouldn't buy half of the movies/tv shows/songs I may or may not have downloaded, they wouldn't get the money off me anyways. If I knew more money went to the artists I might buy the albums.

Downloading = Illegal
Looting = Illegal

Downloading =/= Looting!

d'Oracle · 12-08-2011 01:37PM

Leeg17 wrote: »

I wouldn't buy half of the movies/tv shows/songs I may or may not have downloaded, they wouldn't get the money off me anyways. If I knew more money went to the artists I might buy the albums.

Downloading = Illegal
Looting = Illegal

Downloading =/= Looting!

You probably shouldn't have used the equation terms there.

MungBean · 12-08-2011 01:38PM

Downloading ≠ Looting!

later12 · 12-08-2011 01:48PM

It is not the same as looting, but I agree it is a form of theft. You are enriching yourself with a product, using illegal channels, at the expense of an individual, group or company.

I think the acceptibility of illegally downloading music is a sad reflection of the ease with which some people will manipulate their ethical judgement in favour of their own personal gain.

If they do this whilst admitting its a form of theft, fair enough. But do engage in it and then deny that illegally downloading music is a form of theft - that's what is so incredible.

Liam Byrne · 12-08-2011 01:50PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Yes, therefore it's illegal as it's breaking copywrite law. I never said it wasn't.

I said it wasn't 'stealing'.

And yet you keep on calling it "copywrite" ?

Liam Byrne · 12-08-2011 01:53PM

paddyandy wrote: »

There should be clear signs or marks on material

There is. It's just not on the illegal copy, therefore those copying the copy from the internet never get to see it.

LaVail · 12-08-2011 01:57PM

I sometimes watch shows online and usually don't give it a second thought. The thing is though that somebody somewhere will eventually be put out of a job over this sort of thing. Mates of mine watch stuff online all the time, day in day out and they say things like "sure tis only a few shows, whats the harm?" The problem is that at the exact moment in time you download a song or watch a programme Illegally online there are 100's of 1000's of people around the world thinking the exact same thing.

Here is a video from a couple of years back, interesting fact about illegally downloaded songs at the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

Logical Fallacy · 12-08-2011 02:02PM

Morlar wrote: »

There is no comparison between stealing intellectual property and stealing physical property, arson and assaulting and terrorising innocent human beings.

Please, you clearly have no appreciation of how those poor studio executives are suffering.

The movie industry is awash with Producers who can no longer afford to have their penis plated in 24 carat gold.

All throughout the music industry A+R people need to dip into their own bulging pocket for their coke money instead of billing it on their expense account.

At awards ceremonies poor actors and actresses need to make do with gift bags that contain a mere 10 grands worth of free **** instead of the 20K baubles of the golden age of money making.

How can you not consider these poor souls to be terrorised?

Leeg17 · 12-08-2011 02:03PM

d'Oracle wrote: »

You probably shouldn't have used the equation terms there.

Why?

tfitzgerald · 12-08-2011 02:13PM

I'm downloading a copy of the Koran at the moment if any wants me to burn them a copy let me know:)

ríomhaire · 12-08-2011 02:19PM

Pirating is certainly not on the same level as looting. Looting is active destruction and theft of objects that directly cost money. Most people who pirate things wouldn't have bought it in the first place if the pirating options wasn't available I find.

Now I don't excuse piracy at all, but putting it on the same level as rioting and looting is bonkers. Pirating is still theft though. Copyright is an important thing. It's there to protect artists and people who create. It means that I can't just reprint Terry Pratchett's books and sell them myself without giving him a cut, which is a damn good thing because if he didn't live off his book sales he would never have written so many, nor would he have been able to donate so much money to Alzheimer's research.

Though that said I don't think copyright violation should be a criminal offence. I think it should be a civil matter between the copyright holder and the violator and it's a waste of time for the police or the courts to be hunting down teenagers who seeded Crysis to loads of people. EA can take it up with the kid and sue him if they like.

I would also make a point that I find nothing wrong with pirating abandonware or media that is not available to your region (I believe that the Room is only available on region 1 locked DVDs for example).

MetalDog · 12-08-2011 02:21PM

wild_cat wrote: »

We never actually take the original though. When looting you actually remove the item. We just copy.

Exactly, those scroats over in London didn't "copy" the stuff from the shops. . . .

d'Oracle · 12-08-2011 02:27PM

Leeg17 wrote: »

Why?

Because it makes a visual representation of your argument being a complete self contradiction.

Leeg17 · 12-08-2011 02:35PM

d'Oracle wrote: »

Because it makes a visual representation of your argument being a complete self contradiction.

I'm not denying both are illegal to do, but that they're not of the same gravity. Nobody dies because people pirate movies, no buildings are burnt to the ground because people pirate music.

Frank Black · 12-08-2011 02:36PM

ríomhaire wrote: »

Pirating is certainly not on the same level as looting. Looting is active destruction and theft of objects that directly cost money. Most people who pirate things wouldn't have bought it in the first place if the pirating options wasn't available I find.

I find your argument strange - what's the difference in saying that most people who loot stuff wouldn't have bought it in the first place if the looting option didn't exist?

Download Illegally? You're no better than the looters.

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