Does it take any skill to be a "DJ"?

Forest Master · 16-08-2011 11:17AM #1

Now firstly - I'm not referring to proper DJs who can scratch & mix - that actually takes skill (when they can actually do it well, which most can't) - but 99% of DJs just play song after song - that takes no skill at all. It's not even their own stuff - they just bought it.

For example, I saw this guy play a few years ago: he has skills, because he actually composes, scratches & mixes his own stuff, mixed with other records & samples:
http://www.djkormac.com/listen-watch/

Most "DJs" don't & can't do this. They just buy a record & play it, followed by another... 99% of DJs fall into this category. And don't try to claim "feeling the vibe of the people on the dancefloor" is a skill. It just takes basic cop on how to bring people up & down with the intensity of music - every single band does this with their set-list construction - the main difference being they write the own sh*t... Yeah, it takes awesome skillz to play someone else's music. Wow - look at him take that record out of it's sleeve & put it on the turntable - what talent!

chin_grin · 16-08-2011 11:19AM

Jays bay you still talking about those big black plastic yokes. 'tis all cd's and mp3's nowadays.

And no it takes absolutely no skill to mix them when you can download freeware to match songs together by their bpm.

Unsinnig · 16-08-2011 11:26AM

Henry Rollins says it best...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v12ttbWvr3I

policarp · 16-08-2011 11:26AM

I suppose it has to take some sort of skill or neck
otherwise everyone would be doing it.
Seems like a handy way of making a few quid though. . .

Logical Fallacy · 16-08-2011 11:26AM

Forest Master wrote: »

Now firstly - I'm not referring to proper DJs who can scratch & mix - that actually takes skill (when they can actually do it well, which most can't) - but 99% of DJs just play song after song - that takes no skill at all. It's not even their own stuff - they just bought it.

For example, I saw this guy play a few years ago: he has skills, because he actually composes, scratches & mixes his own stuff, mixed with other records & samples:
http://www.djkormac.com/listen-watch/

Most "DJs" don't & can't do this. They just buy a record & play it, followed by another... 99% of DJs fall into this category. And don't try to claim "feeling the vibe of the people on the dancefloor" is a skill. It just takes basic cop on how to bring people up & down with the intensity of music - every single band does this with their set-list construction - the main difference being they write the own sh*t... Yeah, it takes awesome skillz to play someone else's music. Wow - look at him take that record out of it's sleeve & put it on the turntable - what talent!

Something tells me you play guitar.

Some DJ's have an intense amount of skill, able to take songs from different genres and BPM's and sow a tapestry of music that is like a journey or a story, they will do things that other DJ's cannot do...find connections between tracks that others wouldn't even try.

Some DJ's are ****.

The same way some bands are good and some bands are ****.

Unsinnig · 16-08-2011 11:29AM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Some DJ's have an intense amount of skill, able to take songs from different genres and BPM's and sow a tapestry of music that is like a journey or a story

I see what you did there. Probably one of the better remixes of logic and bullsh_t.

See you on the cover of NME or Mixmag next month!

That_Guy · 16-08-2011 11:32AM

I can do it so.... no. :pac:

-Kenny- · 16-08-2011 11:32AM

Utter skill here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAmpmrmfUDo

Logical Fallacy · 16-08-2011 11:32AM

Unsinnig wrote: »

I see what you did there. Probably one of the better remixes of logic and bullsh_t.

See you on the cover of NME or Mixmag next month!

Not really. Find a 6 hour mix by Mr Scuff and he'll go from Jazz to Dubstep to DnB by way of jungle, funk and classic breaks. All will be done on vinyl, traveling from 70BPM to 170+ on a piece of technology that has a limited ability to alter pitch. You can watch that guy work for 6 hours and dance non stop, never get bored and always hear a multitude of tracks you will never have heard before.

Then you have guys like DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist who will take other peoples music and across 8 decks slice it up and turn it into something completely new.

There are plenty of DJ's with a lot of skill, and plenty of DJ's with absolutely none.

Also, NME and Mixmag are ****ing rags, i didn't come here to be insulted.

pragmatic1 · 16-08-2011 11:33AM

Q-Bert, Mixmaster Mike and the Beat Junkies-serious skill.
Your average club DJ-Nah.

pragmatic1 · 16-08-2011 11:34AM

-Kenny- wrote: »

Utter skill here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAmpmrmfUDo

That is the worst music of all time.

chin_grin · 16-08-2011 11:34AM

This is the only "jungle" music I can listen to. (May not be jungle..........someone correct me).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp5OxEzxuSg

cherryghost · 16-08-2011 11:36AM

DJ Hero has taught me that even a baby can become a professional DJ

Seachmall · 16-08-2011 11:37AM

chin_grin wrote: »

This is the only "jungle" music I can listen to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zlQYQ0ecA4

chin_grin · 16-08-2011 11:37AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

That is the worst music of all time.

Was that not his point of posting it? Yeah it's really terrible. It immediately gives me an image of the "boyos" fishing drinking cans of bulmers at <insert anywhere>.

mikemac · 16-08-2011 11:38AM

Incredible skill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY17nDW-CX0

Well it got to number one for ten weeks so no denying its succuss

Bring on the quotes and derision :P

NTMK · 16-08-2011 11:38AM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Not really. Find a 6 hour mix by Mr Scuff and he'll go from Jazz to Dubstep to DnB by way of jungle, funk and classic breaks. All will be done on vinyl, traveling from 70BPM to 170+ on a piece of technology that has a limited ability to alter pitch. You can watch that guy work for 6 hours and dance non stop, never get bored and always hear a multitude of tracks you will never have heard before.

Then you have guys like DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist who will take other peoples music and across 8 decks slice it up and turn it into something completely new.

There are plenty of DJ's with a lot of skill, and plenty of DJ's with absolutely none.

Also, NME and Mixmag are ****ing rags, i didn't come here to be insulted.

To be fair OP did state that he wasnt talking about proper Dj's he was talking about the typical irish "dj" that plays the top 20 tracks and journey adding nothing to them creatively

Those kind are ****e

RobbieTheRobber · 16-08-2011 11:42AM

NTMK wrote: »

To be fair OP did state that he wasnt talking about proper Dj's he was talking about the typical irish "dj" that plays the top 20 tracks and journey adding nothing to them creatively

Those kind are ****e

I dont call those type DJ's I just think of them as manual CD changers.
Dont they know they could put all their music into itunes and just let it randomly pick crap songs one after the other!

mackg · 16-08-2011 11:42AM

It probably doesn't take as much technical skill to play as a Steve Vai album but really skill is required to produce good original music like the DJs Logical fallacy pointed out. I do not count taking an eighties song and putting a sh*t beat in the background and a chipmunk singing the lyrics in this bracket, those retards need to stop inflicting that crap on me in night clubs.

Edit: My bad i get what OP meant now, no it requires no skill. a guy in my year in secondary bought decks had never touched them before and within a week was performing the function of an itunes playlist in a local bar.

The Scientician · 16-08-2011 11:44AM

I've done it the odd time. It doesn't take much skill except you have to be good at gauging what the crowd wants next. I'd say the more you do it the better you get, but sometimes you think a tune will go down really well and it'll bomb, othertimes you play a request grudgingly for someone and it lights up the dancefloor. I was at a wedding a while back and a dj from FM104 or one of those stations was the dj, he was really bad at his job. He kept playing the wrong tempo or style stuff back to back, so you'd have auld wans out for a waltz then he'd play the Black Eyed Peas etc. It was fairly basic mistakes he was making, yet there was making them, with all the experience he has.

Anyway so I don't think there's much technical accomplishment you need but you should know a wide variety of music, and what sort of music a crowd is likely to want to dance to.

RobbieTheRobber · 16-08-2011 11:44AM

mackg wrote: »

It probably doesn't take as much technical skill to play as a Steve Vai album but really skill is required to produce good original music like the DJs Logical fallacy pointed out. I do not count taking an eighties song and putting a sh*t beat in the background and a chipmunk singing the lyrics in this bracket, those retards need to stop inflicting that crap on me in night clubs.

These DJ's are in the same league of talent as getting a group of reasonably attractive young boys or girls teach them to dance add a few pre written songs and then digitally tune their voices until it sounds like they are singing type of music.

Seachmall · 16-08-2011 11:46AM

In fairness we've all walked out of clubs thinking either that the music was ****e or was class which shows there is at least some skill involved. Most of the time you don't really form an opinion on whether the DJ was good but when he's bad you bloody well know it.

Alter-Ego · 16-08-2011 11:49AM

Unsinnig wrote: »

Henry Rollins says it best...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v12ttbWvr3I

Henry Rollins is an absolute fcuking bellend. He's not funny, so people are only really going to see a middle aged, barely talented man complain about first world problems.

chin_grin · 16-08-2011 11:52AM

Alter-Ego wrote: »

Henry Rollins is an absolute fcuking bellend. He's not funny, so people are only really going to see a middle aged, barely talented man complain about first world problems.

Have you ever been to any of his spoken word shows or read any of his books? Come back to us when you have, then your opinion might carry a bit more weight.

mackg · 16-08-2011 11:53AM

Seachmall wrote: »

In fairness we've all walked out of clubs thinking either that the music was ****e or was class which shows there is at least some skill involved. Most of the time you don't really form an opinion on whether the DJ was good but when he's bad you bloody well know it.

I'll accept your point about this but will say that most of the DJs I have come across have been absolute sh*te. I don't live in Dublin though so the standard above there may be alot better.

jme2010 · 16-08-2011 11:55AM

cherryghost wrote: »

DJ Hero has taught me that even a baby can become a professional DJ

Because most big clubs have an xbox and plastic turntable with buttons as the set up? you f.uck tard

mod: poster banned

That_Guy · 16-08-2011 12:03PM

jme2010 wrote: »

Because most big clubs have an xbox and plastic turntable with buttons as the set up? you f.uck tard

Twas just a joke dude. Chill.

CoalBucket · 16-08-2011 12:04PM

I have an mp3 player, an ipod, a cd player. That makes me a multi diciplined DJ.

DJs have as much talent as the guy who presses the button to open the barrier at the tesco carpark.

Cianos · 16-08-2011 12:04PM

Most clubs don't allow for a DJ who experiments with stuff that is new to the crowd, they're just there to put on a list of chart crap that the place will dance to.

Clubs that are more oriented around the music depend on talented DJs to keep the crowds interested. Even if they're just playing other peoples stuff, there's still a world of difference between a good DJ and a bad one.

Logical Fallacy · 16-08-2011 12:05PM

chin_grin wrote: »

Have you ever been to any of his spoken word shows or read any of his books? Come back to us when you have, then your opinion might carry a bit more weight.

I've seen Rollins show a few times, he can be pretty damn funny. But he is also pretty limited as well, if Rollins doesn't like it, then it's wrong and there is no room for it.

This though is central to his personality and his success in various fields. When you are screaming from the front of the stage with Black Flag you don't have room to think you might be wrong.

Intensive Care Bear · 16-08-2011 12:07PM

You understand it takes skill to be a talented dj so your question is does it take skill to be a crap dj? Erm no, no it doesnt.

Absurdum · 16-08-2011 12:15PM

Black Flag are ****in legends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCOGM7PL8gY

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 16-08-2011 12:16PM

only the guys who can do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI

the rest - forget it

HoggyRS · 16-08-2011 12:19PM

In most clubs, certainly in urban areas (maybe not out in the sticks where they finish up with the national anthem), djs mix most tunes. That is they beatmatch them. That requires a level of skill that takes a bit of practice and is not something you will be able to do adequately first time round.

You must also be able to read a crowd but also create a build up of tunes, a progression of bpm and genre. You're not gonna drop your end of the night tunes at 11.pm and work backwards.

So yeah theres skill.

vangoz · 16-08-2011 12:23PM

</Thread>

HoggyRS · 16-08-2011 12:25PM

Absurdum wrote: »

Black Flag are ****in legends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCOGM7PL8gY

.....and this guy was criticising electronic music? :eek:

ottostreet · 16-08-2011 12:26PM

Depends entirely on the venue/night in question. For most commercial pubs/clubs, genuine skill is not an essential, experience is. Basic knowledge of commercial music (and no, not just the current Top 40) is an essential. An ability to be able to pace a night properly is essential. The venue I'm resident in at the moment is one of the busiest bars in Carlow, and would require experience and knowledge more so than skill. 'Atmosphere' is more important than dancing in a bar, and so that is where the DJ comes in. How many times have you walked into a bar and just...didn't feel it? There is almost a visible lethargy in the air, and that is an example of the DJ not quite getting it right.

A point to note is that most commercial pubs have a music policy and that while you think the DJ is ****e, and that 'They Shoot Horses Don't They' or 'Jar of Hearts' is a perfectly good song and there is no reason at all why it shouldnt be played, even if the DJ wanted to, he more than likely won't be allowed because the management want a good atmosphere.

Clubs are a different ball game altogether, as there is a big dancefloor there, and nowhere to hide if no-one is dancing. Proper mixing skills are required, a greater ability to read a crowd, and, if its the right kind of place, excellent mic skills. I used to work for the company that ran the Coca-Cola/Cidona Roadshows for teenagers, and sheer nerve is required for those nights, as well as most theme nights, as it will frequently involve you being on stage alone, talking to the crowd, getting them revved up, doing competitions etc. all without the comfort of music to hide behind.

Unfortunately, DJ'ing is one of those particular jobs that everyone thinks they can do, which can be a little bit irritating, but luckily, is one of those jobs that not a huge amount of people can do well.

Forest Master · 16-08-2011 12:31PM

1210m5g wrote: »

You understand it takes skill to be a talented dj so your question is does it take skill to be a crap dj? Erm no, no it doesnt.

That's not what I said at all - try again.

I'm saying there are 2 types of DJ - one that has a sense of rhythm and a sense of melody - they have musical talent that can be tangibly applied to scratching percussively, or mixing & composing their own tracks, interesting use of samples & tempo, etc - basically, they can carve electronic beats & sounds/samples into music. This is 1% of the DJs I've seen. I even gave 1 example.

Then you have Djs who just buy a load of records, stand there with one headphone up to their ear, and just play other people's music - sometimes they even try to "blend" them together (is it called beatmixing?) as a transition to the next track - not exactly hard to do when they're all 120bpm.... Anyway - this type takes no skill, IMO. And this is 99% of the DJs I've seen.

So essentially what I'm proposing is that 99% of DJs have no skill at all. They buy records & just play songs back to back. They get hired because they have a big collection of music and maybe their own equipment too. Or they may just know the promoter.

HoggyRS wrote: »

In most clubs, certainly in urban areas (maybe not out in the sticks where they finish up with the national anthem), djs mix most tunes. That is they beatmatch them. That requires a level of skill that takes a bit of practice and is not something you will be able to do adequately first time round.

You must also be able to read a crowd but also create a build up of tunes, a progression of bpm and genre. You're not gonna drop your end of the night tunes at 11.pm and work backwards.

So yeah theres skill.

^^ Exactly the type of DJing that takes no skill, IMO. Described to a tee.

Run_to_da_hills · 16-08-2011 12:34PM

Real DJ's use 1210's or CDJ1000's any idiot can use a laptop.

abouttobebanned · 16-08-2011 12:36PM

Don't blame the DJs. Blame the idiots (usually women) who, while the band are on, say things like "I don't know any of these songs" "When is the DJ on".

The DJ exists because there is a market for one. People, believe or not, think that bands can be too loud and in many cases, too in love with themselves to play what people want.

Like everything though, it comes down to the individual. A cocky, in love with himself DJ, is just as annoying as a cocky, in love with himself barman, gym instructor, bouncer, guitar player..banker...whatever.

Richard Hillman · 16-08-2011 12:40PM

Actual dance music DJs yes. For Birthdays, weddings and a lot of nightclubs no. Most night clubs just play Rihanna, The black eye peas and then some random RnB acts that are in the charts.

Create a playlist, press play, go for a pint, say happy birthday to somebody, bar, smoke, go back to DJ box and say something, pint, smoke, go back to DJ box and say "good night Springton, there will be no encore", press stop, ride the last fat bird in the place. THE END

HoggyRS · 16-08-2011 12:46PM

Forest Master wrote: »

That's not what I said at all - try again.

I'm saying there are 2 types of DJ - one that has a sense of rhythm and a sense of melody - they have musical talent that can be tangibly applied to scratching percussively, or mixing & composing their own tracks, interesting use of samples & tempo, etc - basically, they can carve electronic beats & sounds/samples into music. This is 1% of the DJs I've seen. I even gave 1 example.

Then you have Djs who just buy a load of records, stand there with one headphone up to their ear, and just play other people's music - sometimes they even try to "blend" them together (is it called beatmixing?) as a transition to the next track - not exactly hard to do when they're all 120bpm.... Anyway - this type takes no skill, IMO. And this is 99% of the DJs I've seen.

So essentially what I'm proposing is that 99% of DJs have no skill at all. They buy records & just play songs back to back.

I think you may be slightly confused between music producers and djs?

Beatmatching is a skill as is EQing. Look them up on youtube. All tracks are 120bpm? On an average night in a club music would range from 85bpm ish to maybe 135bpm, possibly faster. Certainly when i'm playing I start off at 85bpm hip hop and work up to the 130bpm ish.

I think if you want to say that djs possess no skill you will have to first gain an understanding of what is involved with DJing. Or better yet try the job yourself if its so easy.

Forest Master wrote: »

^^ Exactly the type of DJing that takes no skill, IMO. Described to a tee.

Mixing is a skill. If you can perfectly mix two records on your first go, i'd accept it is not a skill. Fortunately I know this would not be the case.

wandatowell · 16-08-2011 12:46PM

mikemac wrote: »

Incredible skill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY17nDW-CX0

Well it got to number one for ten weeks so no denying its succuss

You see, you are confusing success with talent, its a mistake aften made by people who like chart music

Each to their own though,

NTMK · 16-08-2011 12:55PM

HoggyRS wrote: »

Mixing is a skill. If you can perfectly mix two records on your first go, i'd accept it is not a skill. Fortunately I know this would not be the case.

I think most people agree mixing is a skill but but djs ive come across in limerick and galway dont mix their sets dont flow and there has been no creative input into the songs. Djs up in dublin are better but you still come across **** ones from time to time

Logical Fallacy · 16-08-2011 12:57PM

wandatowell wrote: »

You see, you are confusing success with talent, its a mistake aften made by people who like chart music

Each to their own though,

He is also confusing producing a tune with DJing.

ebixa82 · 16-08-2011 12:57PM

People need to differentiate between professional DJs and DJs who play crap music in crap pubs and clubs.

Look at this to see a professional at work..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb4etMWgEyU

Logical Fallacy · 16-08-2011 01:02PM

Forest Master wrote: »

Then you have Djs who just buy a load of records, stand there with one headphone up to their ear, and just play other people's music - sometimes they even try to "blend" them together (is it called beatmixing?) as a transition to the next track - not exactly hard to do when they're all 120bpm.... Anyway - this type takes no skill, IMO. And this is 99% of the DJs I've seen.

The reason they are gonna have on headphone up to their ear is because you need to have one ear to the mix and one ear to the monitors. Personally when i am playing a set it's important that i respect the crowd and keep an eye on the volume and make sure the highs are not screeching. You used the headphone to match the beat and the monitors to make sure it sounds cushty.

It should be noted that when i play sets it's all stuff i composed and produced myself...so this thread makes me feel good. I'm better than 99% of DJ's.

Deadly.

ebixa82 · 16-08-2011 01:07PM

Forest Master wrote: »

That's not what I said at all - try again.

I'm saying there are 2 types of DJ - one that has a sense of rhythm and a sense of melody - they have musical talent that can be tangibly applied to scratching percussively, or mixing & composing their own tracks, interesting use of samples & tempo, etc - basically, they can carve electronic beats & sounds/samples into music. This is 1% of the DJs I've seen. I even gave 1 example.

Then you have Djs who just buy a load of records, stand there with one headphone up to their ear, and just play other people's music - sometimes they even try to "blend" them together (is it called beatmixing?) as a transition to the next track - not exactly hard to do when they're all 120bpm.... Anyway - this type takes no skill, IMO. And this is 99% of the DJs I've seen.

So essentially what I'm proposing is that 99% of DJs have no skill at all. They buy records & just play songs back to back. They get hired because they have a big collection of music and maybe their own equipment too. Or they may just know the promoter.

^^ Exactly the type of DJing that takes no skill, IMO. Described to a tee.

Forest Master tried to be cool for school and got shot down. Bad.

wandatowell · 16-08-2011 01:08PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

He is also confusing producing a tune with DJing.

In fairness so did i!

:D:D

stovelid · 16-08-2011 01:15PM

I'm in the in-between camp.

I think a good DJ is a little bit more than (in the immortal words of Booby Gillespie) "some cunt onstage sending emails". There is a real skill involved in unearthing music that people like, finding an old tune that fits the vibe of a night perfectly and taking the crowd on a journey - not to mention the skill involved in mixing and playing the music.

Where it gets daft is when they are spoken of in the same terms as people that write and create music.

Also, as somebody who grew up with Northern Soul/Funk/early House/Acid scene, I liked it better in the more innocent times when the DJ was more like the early hip-hop archetype: rocking the party with the crowd, not some superstar sap up on a lofty pedestal doing the artist thing.

mackg · 16-08-2011 01:17PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

The reason they are gonna have on headphone up to their ear is because you need to have one ear to the mix and one ear to the monitors. Personally when i am playing a set it's important that i respect the crowd and keep an eye on the volume and make sure the highs are not screeching. You used the headphone to match the beat and the monitors to make sure it sounds cushty.

It should be noted that when i play sets it's all stuff i composed and produced myself...so this thread makes me feel good. I'm better than 99% of DJ's.

Deadly.

Does it take any skill to be a "DJ"?

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