I greatly dislike Neil Warnock

efb · 26-09-2011 05:48AM #1

I think Neil Warnock's comments on the EPL's youngest ref were disgusting, trying to intimidate and undermine him.

Sure it was 'only' a shirt pull but the AV player went down and technically its a foul. So it can be justifiably a (soft) penalty.

Both his shouts for peno's were ball-to-hand so no nice.

And Traore could have gotten a straight red.

He'll take his fine I'm sure, but I hope it doesn't ruin that young ref's confidence.

I know Warnock has previous, but i thought this was very underhand.

Giggsy11 · 26-09-2011 06:02AM

IMO there is nothing wrong in telling how they feel. There were many questionable decisions so it is natural for any person to balme the ref. I thought QPR were hard done. Very soft penalty and hand ball which is also a foul if we consider slight shirt pull as foul.

Also can understand his frustration, played very well against Newcastle but ended up with only a point, same against Villa played well for major part of the game, still ended up with draw.

efb · 26-09-2011 06:20AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

IMO there is nothing wrong in telling how they feel. There were many questionable decisions so it is natural for any person to balme the ref. I thought QPR were hard done. Very soft penalty and hand ball which is also a foul if we consider slight shirt pull as foul.

Also can understand his frustration, played very well against Newcastle but ended up with only a point, same against Villa played well for major part of the game, still ended up with draw.

"Ball to hand" so handling the ball isn't always an offence.

GavRedKing · 26-09-2011 07:40AM

Agree on the dislike of Warnock. Some of stuff he comes out with is cringe worthy at best.

On yesterdays decisions, QPR deserved a draw, I think the pull on Agbonlahor was a penalty, just most ref's dont give them becasue they miss them but it is a foul, outside the box its a free so no reason it isnt a peno.

Huttons first handball was a penalty IMO, he had enough distance to get his hand out of the way and was blocking the ball going to goal, the 2nd one was ball to hand as he was about a yard away from the ball, I think the ref got the Traore 2 yellows right.

Cant remember too many fouls by Villa that could have gotten there players sent off, except maybe Huttons handball as if had been given he could hae got a second yellow.

du Maurier · 26-09-2011 08:16AM

He always seems so hard done by. The gospel according to Neil Warnock time and time again. He's a trained referee himself so maybe this is where he takes it upon himself to furnish us with his own letter of the law - it's too often his talking point as long as I can remember with his interviews. Play a different tune.

He was right to be pissed about the Hutton block but has again blown the 'incompetence' of referees card out of proportion. Ridiculous really, and there's much of the Championship naivety and bluster about him ("The big teams get all the decisions..blah blah blah. Ian Holloway was another moany cnut in that regard as well)

amiable · 26-09-2011 08:39AM

I've met Warnock a few times and he's a different person off camera IMO.

It's all a front and i don't know why people get their knickers in a twist.

Of the penalties, if the Villa one is given then the players deserve consistency.

I think the first one of Hutton's handballs is a penalty and a yellow card at least.

The second although not a penalty IMO, Hutton deliberately made himself big which i think players have been warned not to do.

I think Petrov should have seen red too for his tackle.
I think he knew he was in trouble and his reaction may have saved him.

Silly tackle for Traore to make when already on a yellow.

El Weirdo · 26-09-2011 09:23AM

efb wrote: »

I think Neil Warnock's comments on the EPL's youngest ref were disgusting, trying to intimidate and undermine him.

Sure it was 'only' a shirt pull but the AV player went down and technically its a foul. So it can be justifiably a (soft) penalty.

Both his shouts for peno's were ball-to-hand so no nice.

And Traore could have gotten a straight red.

He'll take his fine I'm sure, but I hope it doesn't ruin that young ref's confidence.

I know Warnock has previous, but i thought this was very underhand.

How exactly did he try to "undermine and intimidate" him? And what has the fact that he is the PL's youngest ref got to do with the price of rice? He's surely big enough and ugly enough to have his decisions questioned.

I saw nothing wrong with his comments in his interview on Sky Sports after the game. He's questioned a couple of decisions as pretty much everyone that's watched the game has.

He also went on to describe Oliver as "one of the best referees" in the Premier League according to The Guardian.

efb · 26-09-2011 09:37AM

That's called covering his ass.

It's like Older players nurture younger players young refs have to be nurtured also

El Weirdo · 26-09-2011 10:28AM

efb wrote: »

That's called covering his ass.

It's like Older players nurture younger players young refs have to be nurtured also

Covering his ass for what?

Also, maybe he should be nurtured in the lower leagues then. Just like a young player is often sent on loan. But if he's good enough for the bigger leagues then he should be able to take what comes with it.

Edit: I've just seen the post-match interview again on SSN. Warnock actually says "he's done well" referring to the referee's performance.

gosplan · 26-09-2011 12:35PM

My favourite bit was...

Warnock wrote:

They've stayed on the pitch, Collins and the number 10, whoever he was, should have been booked twice.

That'd be Nzogbia Neil :P

Leiva · 26-09-2011 12:38PM

Any manager that does an interview from his patio out his back garden should be shot with balls of their own Shiite .

AnCapaillMor · 26-09-2011 12:40PM

Here's a little known fact, Warnock has never lost a game fairly. Warnocks always whinging bout something or other but he's as bad as ferguson and wenger not worse. He loses more games than them and so we see him whinge more.

Jigga · 26-09-2011 03:01PM

Dermot Gallagher said on Sky Sports News that Villa’s penalty should not have been given.

He also said the first handball from Hutton was blatant and a stonewall penalty!

dsmythy · 26-09-2011 03:25PM

efb wrote: »

"Ball to hand" so handling the ball isn't always an offence.

I never got this hand to ball talk. If someone on the line with his arms out for 'balance' stopped the ball going into the net that had been blasted from the 6 yard box it's obviously a penalty. So even 'ball to hand' doesn't work 100%

26-09-2011 03:37PM

Have to say actually like Warnock. Has a personality unlike a lot of dour managers these days and is always worth a listen even if most of what he says is biased and bull which he knows himself. Underneath all that he is an excellent manager who has done a great job with qpr.

Nalz · 26-09-2011 03:48PM

I'm not loving Kennys or Fergies interviews this season to be honest...very snappy and whingy at times. At least Warnock is entertaining!

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 03:53PM

Surprised nobody has mentioned the disgraceful way Warnock treated his own player!

No matter what he may have felt about Traore yesterday, no manager should come out and call his own player a disgrace. You back your player in public and deal with things like that behind closed doors.

How on earth can Traore play for that man now? And what must the other players think? Will they be lambasted in public next?

premierstone · 26-09-2011 03:56PM

Good manager but a fail on humanity, any sympathy one would have had for QPR after yesterday and the Newcastle game are quickly eroded when Warnock opens he's mouth. That and the sight of Joey Bartons wonderfull haircut :rolleyes:

amiable · 26-09-2011 04:19PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Surprised nobody has mentioned the disgraceful way Warnock treated his own player!

No matter what he may have felt about Traore yesterday, no manager should come out and call his own player a disgrace. You back your player in public and deal with things like that behind closed doors.

How on earth can Traore play for that man now? And what must the other players think? Will they be lambasted in public next?

Traore is a grown man and surely would have know what Warnock is like before he signed for QPR a few short weeks ago.

Man up IMO

Warnock spoke the truth. It was his opinion that Traore was a 'disgrace'
He also said Traore would learn from it and be a better player.

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword and he knows that well.

mosstin · 26-09-2011 04:48PM

gavredking wrote: »

Agree on the dislike of Warnock. Some of stuff he comes out with is cringe worthy at best.

On yesterdays decisions, QPR deserved a draw, I think the pull on Agbonlahor was a penalty, just most ref's dont give them becasue they miss them but it is a foul, outside the box its a free so no reason it isnt a peno.

Huttons first handball was a penalty IMO, he had enough distance to get his hand out of the way and was blocking the ball going to goal, the 2nd one was ball to hand as he was about a yard away from the ball, I think the ref got the Traore 2 yellows right.

Cant remember too many fouls by Villa that could have gotten there players sent off, except maybe Huttons handball as if had been given he could hae got a second yellow.

This is the whole point about refereeing that seems lost on most folk. Decisions are made by referees in a split second with no reference to replays. A million factors can affect that decision - player running across referee's line of sight, simulation etc.
Based on yesterday's performance I think the ref did a top job. What - because other ref's fail to give pens for the blatant shirt tug, he shouldn't either? His positioning for all of the incidents was top notch and it's easy to see why he missed the handball as the ball passed through a crowded penalty area. If anything his assistant probably had a better chance to see it.
Warnock is an always has been a tit and his comments regarding the penalty awarded/not awarded will be repeated ad nauseum throughout the rest of the season as they will be by every manager in the Premier League.

G.K. · 26-09-2011 06:02PM

Regarding handballs, 'ball to hand' doesn't exist. It's about whether the referee considers the handball intentional or not.

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 06:45PM

amiable wrote: »

Traore is a grown man and surely would have know what Warnock is like before he signed for QPR a few short weeks ago.

Man up IMO

Warnock spoke the truth. It was his opinion that Traore was a 'disgrace'
He also said Traore would learn from it and be a better player.

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword and he knows that well.

Its nothing to do with whether Traore is a grown man. Fact is that no manager should ever humiliate their player like that in public. Hell, forget football, show me a manager in any industry who denigrates their own staff in public and I will show you a crap manager.

Warnock can think he is a disgrace all he wants, but Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho, none of the top managers would ever have done that to their own player, because it is a complete breach of trust.

amiable · 26-09-2011 06:51PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its nothing to do with whether Traore is a grown man. Fact is that no manager should ever humiliate their player like that in public. Hell, forget football, show me a manager in any industry who denigrates their own staff in public and I will show you a crap manager.

Warnock can think he is a disgrace all he wants, but Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho, none of the top managers would ever have done that to their own player, because it is a complete breach of trust.

Warnock is still the boss and has done a great job at QPR so far IMO

When he took over he steered them away from relegation worries.

In his first full year he got them promoted as champions playing good football.

As i said in my earlier post if Traore didn't want to play for someone like Warnock he didn't have to.
Not the first time Warnock done it and i'd doubt it will be his last.

People don't like as you seem to not to and they overlook lots of the good stuff he does

I know for a fact it's water off a ducks back with all the criticism he gets and he even has a good laugh at his own nickname

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 07:23PM

amiable wrote: »

Warnock is still the boss and has done a great job at QPR so far IMO

When he took over he steered them away from relegation worries.

In his first full year he got them promoted as champions playing good football.

As i said in my earlier post if Traore didn't want to play for someone like Warnock he didn't have to.
Not the first time Warnock done it and i'd doubt it will be his last.

People don't like as you seem to not to and they overlook lots of the good stuff he does

I know for a fact it's water off a ducks back with all the criticism he gets and he even has a good laugh at his own nickname

Not a single thing you just wrote invalidates the fact that it is extremely bad form for a manger to denigrate his own player in public.

amiable · 26-09-2011 07:25PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not a single thing you just wrote invalidates the fact that it is extremely bad form for a manger to denigrate his own player in public.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its nothing to do with whether Traore is a grown man. Fact is that no manager should ever humiliate their player like that in public. Hell, forget football, show me a manager in any industry who denigrates their own staff in public and I will show you a crap manager.

Warnock can think he is a disgrace all he wants, but Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho, none of the top managers would ever have done that to their own player, because it is a complete breach of trust.

I just showed you that he is a good manager

DOC09UNAM · 26-09-2011 07:26PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

amiable wrote: »

Warnock is still the boss and has done a great job at QPR so far IMO

When he took over he steered them away from relegation worries.

In his first full year he got them promoted as champions playing good football.

As i said in my earlier post if Traore didn't want to play for someone like Warnock he didn't have to.
Not the first time Warnock done it and i'd doubt it will be his last.

People don't like as you seem to not to and they overlook lots of the good stuff he does

I know for a fact it's water off a ducks back with all the criticism he gets and he even has a good laugh at his own nickname

Not a single thing you just wrote invalidates the fact that it is extremely bad form for a manger to denigrate his own player in public.

Didn't king kenny do it to johnson last year? Or maybe it was hodgson, either way, it worked and he seemed to take it on the chin.

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 07:42PM

amiable wrote: »

I just showed you that he is a good manager

No, all you showed was that you think he is a good manager, and whether you think he is a good manager or not does not change the fact that it is extremely bad form for a manger to denigrate his own player in public.

Did Daglish do it too? I don't really care. Harry Redknapp did it, and look how well the goal scoring machine Darren Bent did for him.

How is this even open to debate? Look at the quote;

"I just thought he was a disgrace," said Warnock. "I will fine him as much as I possibly can.

What exactly did he think it would achieve saying this to the cameras that he wouldn't achieve saying it to the player behind closed doors? It gained the club nothing, except to publicly humiliate one of its staff. Just because Warnock got the richest club in the championship promoted doesn't change that fact one little bit.

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 07:44PM

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Didn't king kenny do it to johnson last year? Or maybe it was hodgson, either way, it worked and he seemed to take it on the chin.

Explain what you mean by "it worked"? Are you saying that Johnson increased performance because his manager publicly slated him, whereas he wouldn't have increased performance if he had only received that criticism behind closed doors?

amiable · 26-09-2011 07:45PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Explain what you mean by "it worked"? Are you saying that Johnson increased performance because his manager publicly slated him, whereas he wouldn't have increased performance if he had only received that criticism behind closed doors?

He did actually. He threw his toys out of the pram at first and then knuckled down and improved his form.

amiable · 26-09-2011 07:48PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, all you showed was that you think he is a good manager, and whether you think he is a good manager or not does not change the fact that it is extremely bad form for a manger to denigrate his own player in public.

Did Daglish do it too? I don't really care. Harry Redknapp did it, and look how well the goal scoring machine Darren Bent did for him.

How is this even open to debate? Look at the quote;

What exactly did he think it would achieve saying this to the cameras that he wouldn't achieve saying it to the player behind closed doors? It gained the club nothing, except to publicly humiliate one of its staff. Just because Warnock got the richest club in the championship promoted doesn't change that fact one little bit.

I don't really care? Fair enough. What you want is for people to just agree with you and discussion to end.

I've shown that what Warnock has done since he took over at QPR is very good as a manager.
You've shown nothing except you think he's an awful manager.

He's done it several times to Taarabt and got better results out of the player than a couple of Spurs managers could get out of him.

He had a go at Jamie Mackie too and it worked

Turtyturd · 26-09-2011 07:52PM

mixednuts wrote: »

Any manager that does an interview from his patio out his back garden should be shot with balls of their own Shiite .

Is that a step up or a step down from their car window?

Minstrel27 · 26-09-2011 07:56PM

Same old Warnock. Blames everyone else for his problems. I detest him.

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 07:56PM

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Didn't king kenny do it to johnson last year? Or maybe it was hodgson, either way, it worked and he seemed to take it on the chin.

Just on this point, I have been searching for any quote by Daglish about Johnson to compare the situation, and I cannot find this critical quote you mention. Do you have a link to it?

amiable wrote: »

He did actually. He threw his toys out of the pram at first and then knuckled down and improved his form.

What did Daglish say about Johnson?

And with all due respect, it is easy for you to say that he did improve, being as it would be convenient if it were to be the case. Not to mention that you have no objective way of confirming if private criticism would have had just the same effect or even more.

Turtyturd · 26-09-2011 08:00PM

Wasn't it Woy who cwiticized Johnson?

DOC09UNAM · 26-09-2011 08:07PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Wasn't it Woy who cwiticized Johnson?

Yeah I put in both because I wasn't completely sure.

tommyhaas · 26-09-2011 08:23PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Wasn't it Woy who cwiticized Johnson?

I'm pretty sure it was Hodgson who said something along the lines of ''Johnson's not playing like you'd expect the England RB to''

EDIT: Thats the quote there

''He's the England right-back and if he plays like that one would expect him to come back in. But then he'd have to play like the England right-back and up to now, to be quite frank, he's not performed – very often at least – to the level I'd expect of him.

"You would have to ask him the question: 'Do you think you're playing at top form and are you playing like the best right-back in the country for your club?' If he says yes obviously we will have to agree to differ and if he says no, then you'd have to ask the question: 'Why not?'"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/13/glen-johnson-liverpool-roy-hodgson

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 08:38PM

Having found the comments, you cannot think they are the same situation.

There is no way this:

He said that the former Chelsea and Portsmouth player should be asking himself if he believes he is playing like the best right back in the country.

is nearly as bad as:

"I just thought he was a disgrace," said Warnock. "I will fine him as much as I possibly can.

Not in a million years is Hodgsons comment as bad as Warnocks. Hodgson was clearly going for some reverse psychology, implying that Johnson could be the best in the country. Warnocks was simply blunt, vicious and personal.

And whats this? It appears Johnsons performances may not have improved??? In fact;

Reports emerged today claiming Johnson is unhappy at Anfield and that his relationship with the manager has deteriorated.

So even though Hodgsons was nowhere near as personal, Glen Johnson still felt aggrieved. And whats this? It seems even Roy Hodgson realised that it may have been the wrong thing to do, in fact he even apologised for the remarks;

I'm sorry! Liverpool boss Roy Hodgson apologises to Glen Johnson for blasting below par performances

I wonder will Warnock apologise?

PARlance · 26-09-2011 08:44PM

efb wrote: »

I think Neil Warnock's comments on the EPL's youngest ref were disgusting, trying to intimidate and undermine him.

Sure it was 'only' a shirt pull but the AV player went down and technically its a foul. So it can be justifiably a (soft) penalty.

Both his shouts for peno's were ball-to-hand so no nice.

And Traore could have gotten a straight red.

He'll take his fine I'm sure, but I hope it doesn't ruin that young ref's confidence.

I know Warnock has previous, but i thought this was very underhand.

efb wrote: »

That's called covering his ass.

It's like Older players nurture younger players young refs have to be nurtured also

OP, Would I be correct in deducting that you're a Ref?

1. It's nothing new to see a manager slate a Ref
2. It's not a managers responsibility to nurture a ref

Warnock isn't the nicest bloke around, but i'm not in favour of managers nurturing refs or football being neutered!

amiable · 26-09-2011 08:46PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Having found the comments, you cannot think they are the same situation.

There is no way this:

is nearly as bad as:

Not in a million years is Hodgsons comment as bad as Warnocks. Hodgson was clearly going for some reverse psychology, implying that Johnson could be the best in the country. Warnocks was simply blunt, vicious and personal.

And whats this? It appears Johnsons performances may not have improved??? In fact;

So even though Hodgsons was nowhere near as personal, Glen Johnson still felt aggrieved. And whats this? It seems even Roy Hodgson realised that it may have been the wrong thing to do, in fact he even apologised for the remarks;

I wonder will Warnock apologise?

You haven't proved he has done a bad job as manager of QPR

I showed you examples of him doing it before to other players and it worked.

It's his style of management and it works for him.

PARlance · 26-09-2011 08:47PM

amiable wrote: »

You haven't proved he has done a bad job as manager of QPR

I showed you examples of him doing it before to other players and it worked.

It's his style of management and it works for him.

But he's not being nice :rolleyes:

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 08:54PM

amiable wrote: »

You haven't proved he has done a bad job as manager of QPR

I didn't enter this thread to critique his job as a manager, thats all in your head. My point was that it was totally inappropriate to lambast his own player the way he did. Here you are, for the third time. It is extremely bad form for a manger to denigrate his own player in public. Did you miss that the first two times?

I showed you examples of him doing it before to other players and it worked.

No you didn't, you just said he did it before and it worked. You have shown nothing. I have shown evidence of players being upset at similar incidents, you have shown nothing.

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 09:07PM

I wonder what the PFA thinks about criticising players in public?

Taylor told BBC Radio Derby: "It cannot be appropriate to criticise your team in such a way in public.

"We'll sort things out...otherwise it looks an untenable situation."

Taylor added: "It's a breach of the trust between the players and the manager and the manager and the players,

Strong words from Gordon Taylor there.

And wow, it seems Jose Mourinho has indeed criticised a player in public! And just look at the ****storm it created in his squad...

Real Madrid coach does the unthinkable – criticising a Real Madrid player in public

It’s alleged that Real’s players have reached the end of their tether with their coach, and have demanded he tone down his comments to the press.

Maybe they are just doing it wrong?

amiable · 26-09-2011 09:27PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I didn't enter this thread to critique his job as a manager, thats all in your head. My point was that it was totally inappropriate to lambast his own player the way he did. Here you are, for the third time. It is extremely bad form for a manger to denigrate his own player in public. Did you miss that the first two times?

No you didn't, you just said he did it before and it worked. You have shown nothing. I have shown evidence of players being upset at similar incidents, you have shown nothing.

FFS Warnock has done it countless times.

So you just came on to have a go.
Well done. Now cheerio.

The fookin dogs on the street have heard him having a go at several of his players

Dozen Wicked Words · 26-09-2011 09:41PM

Managers down the years have slated their own players, not new.

Porterfield, when at Chelsea publicly said Beasant would never play for the Blues again after he had a meltdown against (?) Norwich. If thats not belittling someone, 'Arry sayin his missus could have scored the header Bent missed is not going to do his confidence much good.

bucketybuck · 26-09-2011 09:52PM

amiable wrote: »

FFS Warnock has done it countless times.

So you just came on to have a go.
Well done. Now cheerio.

The fookin dogs on the street have heard him having a go at several of his players

I don't live on the street.

What you fail to understand is that even if (a fact you still have not shown any evidence for) Warnock does it regularly, that still does not mean it is a good thing to do. Why is this so hard for you to understand.

amiable · 26-09-2011 10:07PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't live on the street.

What you fail to understand is that even if (a fact you still have not shown any evidence for) Warnock does it regularly, that still does not mean it is a good thing to do. Why is this so hard for you to understand.

What you don't seem to understand is that he has done and it's worked.
Why is that so hard to understand?

I never suggested you live on a street.

efb · 27-09-2011 05:11AM

ajcurry123 wrote: »

OP, Would I be correct in deducting that you're a Ref?

1. It's nothing new to see a manager slate a Ref
2. It's not a managers responsibility to nurture a ref

Warnock isn't the nicest bloke around, but i'm not in favour of managers nurturing refs or football being neutered!

Not a soccer ref, no.

Managers can't be allowed scapegoat refs for their own team's failings.

amiable · 27-09-2011 07:00AM

efb wrote: »

Not a soccer ref, no.

Managers can't be allowed scapegoat refs for their own team's failings.

But another Referee was on Sky yesterday and said Oliver got at least 2 decisions very wrong.

That's potentially a 2 goal sway.

Scapegoat my arse. I think you are letting your feelings for Warnock cloud your judgement.

efb · 27-09-2011 08:51AM

amiable wrote: »

But another Referee was on Sky yesterday and said Oliver got at least 2 decisions very wrong.

That's potentially a 2 goal sway.

Scapegoat my arse. I think you are letting your feelings for Warnock cloud your judgement.

Gallgher- that guy loves the sound of his own voice- if he only got 2 decisions wrong in a match it would be a v good day for him!

amiable · 27-09-2011 08:54AM

efb wrote: »

Gallgher- that guy loves the sound of his own voice- if he only got 2 decisions wrong in a match it would be a v good day for him!

You missed the point. He knows the laws inside and said the referee in question got big decisions wrong.

Referees are professionals now and if they are not doint their job correctly they can be held to account just like anyone else.

If Warnock or any other manager doesn't do their job correctly they are asked to explain why and are subject to criticism in the press, from fans and forums.

I greatly dislike Neil Warnock

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