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God Particle Detected at CERN

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Comments

  • #92
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    A giant waste of money in my opinion. I frankly don't care how the universe was made. Like some one said, put that money into other things. Like schools or improving the roads etc.


  • #93
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Did maxwell spend 7 billion farthings or whatever it was to do this ? No. That would have been unconscionable back then.



    Equally - the computer sitting in front of me is there thanks the captalism - not some doe eyed scientists trying to better mankind. Yes the laser was originally invented without a practical purpose (although there was theoretical purpose). But did it cost 7 billion ? No.

    But you have to understand something about science now. All the easy apples are picked, any advance from now will cost.

    The days of making a simple apparatus to find alpha waves are over. Now its sensitive detectors and a lot of money.

    As for computers if you were to count up all the private and public R and D that went into computers, cerns cost wourd dwarf that figure. You are probably talking billions and billions and still being invested.


  • #94
    skelliser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    A giant waste of money in my opinion. I frankly don't care how the universe was made. Like some one said, put that money into other things. Like schools or improving the roads etc.

    so the internet is a giant waste of money!!
    yes, the world wide web was invented at CERN, just one of the many advances CERN has given us.


  • #95
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    skelliser wrote: »
    so the internet is a giant waste of money!!
    yes, the world wide web was invented at CERN, just one of the many advances CERN has given us.
    Most likely. We could all live without the web.


  • #96
    skelliser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Most likely. We could all live without the web.

    right so!

    return your modem/router to your ISP


    That goes for all of ye with this non-senical argument that the money would be better spent on other things.

    Do us all a favour and turn your internet off!


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  • #97
    FloatingVoter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭FloatingVoter


    Can these nerds help me find my keys ?


  • #98
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    44leto wrote: »
    But you have to understand something about science now. All the easy apples are picked, any advance from now will cost.
    Rubbish. There's plenty of dogma out there to be kicked over for alot less
    The days of making a simple apparatus to find alpha waves are over. Now its sensitive detectors and a lot of money.
    17 year old in her bedroom hitting the headlines:
    http://jezebel.com/5867060/awesome-17+year+old-girl-invents-nanoparticle-that-kills-cancer-cells
    As for computers if you were to count up all the private and public R and D that went into computers, cerns cost wourd dwarf that figure. You are probably talking billions and billions and still being invested.
    But you are not listening. There was and is immediate practical gain from this.
    skelliser wrote: »
    so the internet is a giant waste of money!!
    yes, the world wide web was invented at CERN, just one of the many advances CERN has given us.

    Man the internet giveth and the internet taketh away - I was alot more productive when I didn't have the internet to distract me :P


  • #99
    ronan45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ronan45


    Does this meanz 2012z is twue ! :eek:


  • #100
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    E = MC2

    http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/happy-thumbs-up-l.png


    * Hang on a second.


    M = E/C2

    http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/iliedsquare.jpg


  • #101
    skelliser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    some of the spin offs from the investment at CERN
    Spin-offs and stimulation of industry

    By spin-offs, I mean devices and techniques developed to do basic research which turn out to have other uses. I give some examples from particle physics (many could equally well be credited to nuclear physics, from which particle physics developed):

    Accelerators [*]

    semiconductor industry
    sterilisation - food, medical, sewage
    radiation processing
    non-destructive testing
    cancer therapy
    incineration of nuclear waste
    power generation (energy amplifier)?
    source of synchrotron radiation (biology, condensed matter physics...)
    source of neutrons (biology, condensed matter physics...)

    Particle detectors

    Crystal Detectors [*]
    medical imaging
    security
    non-destructive testing
    research
    Multiwire Proportional Chambers
    container inspection
    research
    Semi-conductor Detectors
    many applications at the development stage

    Informatics

    World Wide Web [*]
    Simulation programmes
    Fault diagnosis
    Control systems
    Stimulation of parallel computing

    Superconductivity

    Particle physics
    multifilamentary wires/cables
    nuclear magnetic resonance imaging
    many others (cryogenics, vacuum, electrical engineering, geodesy...)


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  • #102
    seantorious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭seantorious


    foxyboxer wrote: »
    E = MC2

    http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/happy-thumbs-up-l.png


    * Hang on a second.


    M = EC2

    http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/iliedsquare.jpg

    M= E/C2


  • #103
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    Point is we have to spend money on and conduct the research in order to develop more destructive weapons. No point saying when Aliens invade that at least the roads were smooth.

    :D

    Higgs Boson Rays for all!!!!

    Photon Torpedos!!!!


  • #104
    FrostyJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭FrostyJack


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    A giant waste of money in my opinion. I frankly don't care how the universe was made. Like some one said, put that money into other things. Like schools or improving the roads etc.

    Good thing your opinion doesn't count. This money wouldn't go into schools or roads or your mortgage, it would probably go into another project. Just because you don't understand/care about it, doesn't mean it is a waste of money. Should all funding to arts be cut because I don't see any benefit to it? Should all sporting events that require Garda redeployment be canned and money deverted to hospitals? Should alcohol be banned because it increases resources in hospital/emergency services because that is taking money away from paying for roads? Ok I have gone on a bit of a rant, but I hope you see the point.
    The science taking place in CERN and other labs is advancing mankind, the other stuff I listed isn't. 400 years from now I know which will be seen as more important (if we last that long).


  • #105
    force eleven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭force eleven


    DaveDaRave wrote: »
    This is to do with the entire existence of everything that existed and ever will exist. **** your mortgage.

    Still won't change the fact that the sun will rise tomorrow, and life will go on. Why spend billions on this?

    Waste of money. Millions of starving,poverty striken people won't give a fig about Higg.:mad:


  • #106
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    seantorious wrote: »
    M= E/C2

    Ninja edit timing fail :o


  • #107
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    FrostyJack wrote: »
    Good thing your opinion doesn't count. This money wouldn't go into schools or roads or your mortgage, it would probably go into another project. Just because you don't understand/care about it, doesn't mean it is a waste of money. Should all funding to arts be cut because I don't see any benefit to it? Should all sporting events that require Garda redeployment be canned and money deverted to hospitals? Should alcohol be banned because it increases resources in hospital/emergency services because that is taking money away from paying for roads? Ok I have gone on a bit of a rant, but I hope you see the point.
    The science taking place in CERN and other labs is advancing mankind, the other stuff I listed isn't. 400 years from now I know which will be seen as more important (if we last that long).
    Some things matter more than others.

    You say it is advancing mankind. My view point is it isn't because nothing has changed in the grand scheme of things. We still have poverty/homelessness and people dying of hunger all over the world.

    If it does good for these people, I suppose it would be useful but from what I have seen, it really makes no difference to these people who are suffering. I am sure an African family starving will really care how the Universe was created.


  • #108
    Jopari87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭Jopari87


    You can't say that 7bn has been wasted because it has no tangible benefits, because we don't know what it will lead to in the future.

    Arguing whether light was a wave or a particle didn't seem to have any tangible benefits either, yet if scientists didn't bother with that we wouldn't have the technology we have today.


  • #109
    skelliser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    Some more spin offs
    Apart from fulfilling a quest for knowledge, studying particle physics provides wider benefits to society. Cancer therapy, medical and industrial imaging, radiation processing, electronics, measuring instruments, new manufacturing processes and materials, Information Technology, the WWW, are just some of the many technologies developed at CERN during research in particle physics.

    These benefits are felt particularly in medicine. For example, about 20 million people each year undergo diagnosis using radio-pharmaceuticals. A well known form of this is the Positron Emission Tomography, or PET scan, whose development owes much to CERN and the Geneva Cantonal Hospital as the forerunners of the detectors used in these scanners were developed initially as particle detectors for experiments at CERN.

    In the most recent development proton accelerators are now being adopted for hadron therapy. The advantage of protons is that they deposit all their energy in the same place, making them ideal for treating tumours near to delicate organs. CERN is now contributing to research that uses carbon ions instead of protons, which can be managed as precisely but can have higher energies.


    seriously, i know ignorance is bless but people should at least try and educate themselves!


  • #110
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I for one can't wait to see those sub atomic particles.


  • #111
    Kevin Duffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭Kevin Duffy


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    By the OTT tone of you post you seem to have some irrational emotional attachment to the LHC project.

    Chuck, by the OTT way you've argued your myopic objections to the LHC in a number of threads, you obviously have some emotional prejudice against it.

    See how that works?

    If we followed the kind of Luddite policy yourself an opinion guy espouse, Newton would have sat under a tree with a bump on his head saying "This changes everything.....but I'll say **** all in case they think I was wasting my time sitting under an apple tree for the craic. Chuck Stone'd be all over my bestockinged ass."

    Me may not fully understand the advances we're seeing in our lifetime, as many scientists we remember as giants didn't in theirs, but thankfully they left us their knowledge to use. We'll have to leave ours for the people who come after us and trust that they'll see it's meaning better than we could, or add to it's sum to make more use of it.

    Also, the Higgs-Boson search is a bit of a millstone around the reputation of the LHC - it's a media friendly bit of their work, but while conducting the search they have made other discoveries which have applications here and now, as well as paying off for generations to come. They knew they'd make those discoveries. But don't let your shortsightedness stop you objecting to that.


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  • #112
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    I think given all the talk of a €2 TRILLION eurozone bail out superfund for European banks, 7 billion for CERN is pretty small fry. Now is that ethical when you consider wordwide poverty? Priorities are wrong in that regard but that's for another thread altogether.

    I guess if you could sell a Higgs Boson then there would be more money ploughed into it. Research funding into atoms at the end of the 19th century was driven by the quest for a faster, more efficient steam engine.


  • #113
    FrostyJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭FrostyJack


    force eleven wrote: »
    Still won't change the fact that the sun will rise tomorrow, and life will go on. Why spend billions on this?

    Waste of money. Millions of starving,poverty striken people won't give a fig about Higg.:mad:

    Why do anything when it can go to the starving and poverty striken? Sell your computer and give the money to them.


  • #114
    Kevin Duffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭Kevin Duffy


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    We still have poverty/homelessness and people dying of hunger all over the world.

    And we had those things long before we had science. What's your point? There is no either/or here, we can improve things in more than one area of life at once.


  • #115
    nelly17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭nelly17


    PFTTT Science..... it'll never catch on


  • #116
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    Surprised no one has mentioned this but the World Wide Web was developed at Cern, by Sir Tim Bernard Lee, which has repayed the build cost of cern many times over in terms over value to the world economy.

    As mentioned MRI machines were a direct devopement, but there is a long list of benefits to humanity.
    • Better particle detection devices mean more accurate radiation therapies.
    • particle accelerators used to dispose of nuclear waste
    • the energy research has made a lot of progress in battery storage, efficient transmission, and generation, all of which are of great benefit. (If i recall correctly one experiment required the equivalent power of our sun!)


  • #117
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    Surprised no one has mentioned this but the World Wide Web was developed at Cern, by Sir Tim Bernard Lee, which has repayed the build cost of cern many times over in terms over value to the world economy.

    *ahem* :p

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75981112&postcount=89


  • #118
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    foxyboxer wrote: »
    *ahem*



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75981112&postcount=89


    I know!!! damn this world wide web!!! thread was around post 60 when i started replying.


  • #119
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    skelliser wrote: »
    Some more spin offs

    seriously, I know ignorance is bless but people should at least try and educate themselves!

    As I said before, give me 7billion to put into a paper aeroplane aerodynamics improvement lab and I guarantee you spin off companies and developments.
    Kevin Duffy wrote: »
    If we followed the kind of Luddite policy yourself an opinion guy espouse, Newton would have sat under a tree with a bump on his head saying "This changes everything.....but I'll say **** all in case they think I was wasting my time sitting under an apple tree for the craic. Chuck Stone'd be all over my bestockinged ass."

    I was f**king waiting for someone to come up with this apple under the tree crap. You do know this story is a complete fabrication ? A piece of revisionist history to make Newton appear as a logical man. In truth he was a religious nut. He claimed he got all his knowledge from decoding the bible. After his Principa Mathematica he spent 20 years in isolation trying to decode from the bible to figure out how to turn lead into gold. Dude was an alchemist (but then everyone was back then).

    Also he didn't spend 7billion.

    I'm no Luddite, I just think there is something disturbing about putting sooooo much money into one project when the payback will be decades or centuries away
    foxyboxer wrote: »
    I think given all the talk of a €2 TRILLION eurozone bail out superfund for European banks, 7 billion for CERN is pretty small fry. Now is that ethical when you consider wordwide poverty? Priorities are wrong in that regard but that's for another thread altogether.

    I guess if you could sell a Higgs Boson then there would be more money ploughed into it. Research funding into atoms at the end of the 19th century were driven by the quest for a faster, more efficient steam engine.

    Again can't argue with you there. I'd rather see 7billion in CERN then in Anglo


  • #120
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Kevin Duffy wrote: »
    And we had those things long before we had science. What's your point? There is no either/or here, we can improve things in more than one area of life at once.

    Now that is actually a good point.


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  • #121
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Oh sorry forgive me I forgot about that infinite pile of money and resources we have to draw from. Oh....wait....

    Ahh, fantastic. I see we've hit rock bottom faster than normal.

    opinion guy wrote: »
    Just because you decree it to be a false dichotomy does not make it true. Fact is it isn't a false dichotomy.

    You and that other guy are making the case that we have to choose between the LHC and anything else science related.
    So pardon me for pointing out your weak rhetorical nonsense.

    opinion guy wrote: »
    The money had to come from somewhere, and if you recall at the time the project was given the go ahead years back there were massive arguments about it at the highest political levels.

    Politicians argue. Who would have fucking thought it?
    What, exactly, do you think that shows us?

    opinion guy wrote: »
    Go read up on some economics. Specifically the topics: Supply and Demand, and Opportunity Cost

    I'd be offended at you being such condescending little shit if it weren't for the frailty of everything you've tried to argue.


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