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Voyager nears solar systems edge...

  • 15-12-2010 12:42am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭


    From BBC news...
    Voyager 1, the most distant spacecraft from Earth, has reached a new milestone in its quest to leave the Solar System.

    Now 17.4bn km (10.8bn miles) from home, the veteran probe has detected a distinct change in the flow of particles that surround it.
    These particles, which emanate from the Sun, are no longer travelling outwards but are moving sideways.
    It means Voyager must be very close to making the jump to interstellar space - the space between the stars.
    Edward Stone, the Voyager project scientist, lauded the explorer and the fascinating science it continues to return 33 years after launch.

    "When Voyager was launched, the space age itself was only 20 years old, so there was no basis to know that spacecraft could last so long," he told BBC News.

    "We had no idea how far we would have to travel to get outside the Solar System. We now know that in roughly five years, we should be outside for the first time."

    Dr Stone was speaking here at the American Geophysical Union (AGU) Fall Meeting, the largest gathering of Earth scientists in the world.

    Particle bubble

    Voyager 1 was launched on 5 September 1977, and its sister spacecraft, Voyager 2, on 20 August 1977.

    The Nasa probes' initial goal was to survey the outer planets Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, a task completed in 1989.
    They were then despatched towards deep space, in the general direction of the centre of our Milky Way Galaxy.

    Sustained by their radioactive power packs, the probes' instruments continue to function well and return data to Earth, although the vast distance between them and Earth means a radio message now has a travel time of about 16 hours.

    The newly reported observation comes from Voyager 1's Low-Energy Charged Particle Instrument, which has been monitoring the velocity of the solar wind.

    This stream of charged particles forms a bubble around our Solar System known as the heliosphere. The wind travels at "supersonic" speed until it crosses a shockwave called the termination shock.

    At this point, the wind then slows dramatically and heats up in a region termed the heliosheath. Voyager has determined the velocity of the wind at its location has now slowed to zero.

    Racing onwards

    "We have gotten to the point where the wind from the Sun, which until now has always had an outward motion, is no longer moving outward; it is only moving sideways so that it can end up going down the tail of the heliosphere, which is a comet-shaped-like object," said Dr Stone, who is based at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, California.

    This phenomenon is a consequence of the wind pushing up against the matter coming from other stars. The boundary between the two is the "official" edge of the Solar System - the heliopause. Once Voyager crosses over, it will be in interstellar space.

    First hints that Voyager had encountered something new came in June. Several months of further data were required to confirm the observation.
    "When I realized that we were getting solid zeroes, I was amazed," said Rob Decker, a Voyager Low-Energy Charged Particle Instrument co-investigator from the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Maryland.

    "Here was Voyager, a spacecraft that has been a workhorse for 33 years, showing us something completely new again."
    Voyager 1 is racing on towards the heliopause at 17km/s. Dr Stone expects the cross-over to occur within the next few years.
    Although launched first, Voyager 2 was put on a slower path and is currently just over 14bn km from Earth.


    Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11988466


    Pretty exciting stuff! :)


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭Bohrio


    Its pretty amazing, thanks for this


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    It's almost unbelievable that Voyager is still going strong after all these years. Amazing craft!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭Plug


    How long is left in them for battery juice?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,687 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Plug wrote: »
    How long is left in them for battery juice?
    from
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_program
    Power

    Radioisotope thermoelectric generators for the Voyager program.Electrical power is supplied by three radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs). They are powered by plutonium-238 (distinct from the Pu-239 isotope used in nuclear weapons) and provided approximately 470 W at 30 volts DC when the spacecraft was launched. Plutonium-238 decays with a half-life of 87.74 years,[5] so RTGs using Pu-238 will lose a factor of 1 - 0.5{1/87.74} = 0.78% of their power output per year.

    In 2006, 29 years after launch, such an RTG would produce only 470 W × 2-(29/87.74) ~= 373 W — or about 79.5% — of its initial power. Moreover, the bi-metallic thermocouples that convert heat into electricity also degrade, so the actual power will be even lower.

    As of September 25, 2009 the power generated by Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 had dropped to 276.4 W and 277.6 W respectively. This is about 58% of the power at launch. This level of power output so far has been better than the pre-launch predictions based on a conservative thermocouple degradation model. As the electrical power decreases, spacecraft loads must be turned off, eliminating some spacecraft capabilities

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭BULLER


    Plug wrote: »
    How long is left in them for battery juice?

    yeah... battery....
    Nucular. Its pronounced, nucular.

    Absolutely crazy that its still returning data!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭eh2010


    Plug wrote: »
    How long is left in them for battery juice?

    Its projected to keep powering its instruments until 2025 or slightly afterwards at which point it will run out of power , but will keep drifting in space. Its very exciting . I wonder what its like for the people who built it to know that something that was built by their hand is now leaving the solar systen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭chebonaparte




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭derra


    First time posting on the astronomy & space forum but always have a look at the threads.
    Always had a fascination @ above and beyond but i never really educated myself apart from some documentaries and so on and still at that i would'nt be able to hold a good converstaion regarding what's out there.
    Just have an amazement looking at pictures and the fascination of looking into the sky knowing what is up there and thinking what we don't know is up there.

    Used to get up years ago before school to see lunar eclipses and be in awe at the sight or used to love news reports on Voyager like when when sounds were first transmitted passing by Jupiter/Neptune !

    Unfortunately i have never even looked through a telescope, just a set of binoculars i had :o but will have to attend one of the free public viewing nights that do be held.
    So just a few numbers from last few posts and links relating to Voyager that kind of grabs by attention apart from all the amazing information they have provided..

    Now 17.4bn km (10.8bn miles) from home :eek:
    65,000 individual parts with each spacecraft containing some five million equivalent parts
    This boundary is roughly about halfway to the nearest star, Proxima Centauri. Traveling at speeds of over 35,000 miles per hour, it will take the Voyagers nearly 40,000 years :eek:
    Barring any serious spacecraft subsystem failures, the Voyagers may survive until the early twenty-first century (~ 2025)

    If Voyager had endless power to continue and was indestructible no matter what it encountered,could it just go and go and go and where the heck to :D, That's the kind of thought that endears me to thinking about above and beyond however childish it may seem.


    If anyone like myself lacks a bit of knowledge, this is a good documentary to watch in simple terms, probably bit outdated mind ya but still good viewing.
    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/journey-edge-universe/

    Anyway, look forward to reading future threads on the forum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    I remember when Voyager was launched!

    As a kid, I found the idea of a satellite going in to deep space fascinating.

    Thanks for posting the update about this voyage.
    10.8 billions miles!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beeker


    hinault wrote: »
    I remember when Voyager was launched!

    As a kid, I found the idea of a satellite going in to deep space fascinating.

    Thanks for posting the update about this voyage.
    10.8 billions miles!
    Same here. My interest in space started as a Kid with the Viking landings on Mars, that was amazing to follow. The Voyager flights then captured my imagination and have led to a lifetimes interest in the subject:)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    This probably sounds silly :o but I have a twinge of feeling sorry for the Voyagers,
    I have a feeling of 2 friends beeping* faintly out in the cold and dark loneliness of deep space.
    (The pioneers are more acquaintances than friends)

    *I know they're not actually beeping.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    This probably sounds silly :o but I have a twinge of feeling sorry for the Voyagers,
    I have a feeling of 2 friends beeping* faintly out in the cold and dark loneliness of deep space.
    (The pioneers are more acquaintances than friends)

    But are they beeping if noone is around to hear it?? Its the age old question! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    NoQuarter wrote: »
    But are they beeping if noone is around to hear it?? Its the age old question! :D
    :D
    An age old question indeed.

    Don't forget though "In space no one can hear you scream beep".

    (.....strolls over to philosophy to bump an old thread)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    Thank You Voyager 1 - just Incredible when you think of it !!

    Stargate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    Beeker wrote: »
    Same here. My interest in space started as a Kid with the Viking landings on Mars, that was amazing to follow. The Voyager flights then captured my imagination and have led to a lifetimes interest in the subject:)

    Hiya Beeker ;-)

    Hows the snow situation your way ?

    Stargate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭eh2010


    This probably sounds silly :o but I have a twinge of feeling sorry for the Voyagers,
    I have a feeling of 2 friends beeping* faintly out in the cold and dark loneliness of deep space.
    (The pioneers are more acquaintances than friends)

    *I know they're not actually beeping.

    Absolutely. And those four probes in the outer reaches of the solar system will be joined by the new horizons probe after its finished with pluto. I think the voyagers journey should go down in history along with other groundbreaking historical journeys such as those undertaken by Columbus , Magellan and Marco Polo.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beeker


    Stargate wrote: »
    Hiya Beeker ;-)

    Hows the snow situation your way ?

    Stargate
    All gone at last:) More due today I hear. In work now -3 outside. Time for a big mug of tea:D


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beeker


    eh2010 wrote: »
    Absolutely. And those four probes in the outer reaches of the solar system will be joined by the new horizons probe after its finished with pluto. I think the voyagers journey should go down in history along with other groundbreaking historical journeys such as those undertaken by Columbus , Magellan and Marco Polo.

    Don't forget that they will continue on for ever {or at least for billions of years into the future if they do not run into something} If our species become extinct at some stage they may well be the only artifacts left to show that we ever existed at all. They will remain emissaries of our species long after we are gone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭rccaulfield


    Beeker wrote: »
    Don't forget that they will continue on for ever {or at least for billions of years into the future if they do not run into something} If our species become extinct at some stage they may well be the only artifacts left to show that we ever existed at all. They will remain emissaries of our species long after we are gone.

    Very true, haven't we left recordings of all our languages and a 3d map of helium(is it) on board in case anyone else ever finds it?


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 13,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    It's very exciting to see Voyager 1 finally cross the termination shock.:) This was modelled and predicted for years but of course no probe has ever been here before.

    I wonder if scientists plan to keep in touch with New Horizons until it crosses the termination shock? There's very little mention anywhere of NH being the 5th interstellar-bound space probe.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    are the Cameras still working on the Voyager Craft?????

    I would love to see what it can see, Granted I accept that it would probably just be a patch of Black space, but Black space relayed back to my computer screen from 10 million miles away is still fairly cool


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭Super Freak


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot

    Camera was working in 1990 when this photo was taken from Voyager 1


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beeker


    Very true, haven't we left recordings of all our languages and a 3d map of helium(is it) on board in case anyone else ever finds it?

    There sure is. The late Carl Sagan was involved in having the disc put aboard.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record
    4261614415859b07d58.jpg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beeker


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot

    Camera was working in 1990 when this photo was taken from Voyager 1
    Ah! an appropriate point to post this fantastic Carl Sagan gem!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭eh2010


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43414077/ns/technology_and_science-space/

    Voyager might leave the solar system sooner than we think!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭eh2010


    Realtime update of voyager's positions

    http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/where/index.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭G-Money


    I'm a bit confused by the term interstellar. The article says it's going into interstellar space now, which is the space between stars. I'm a real newbie to all this but isn't it always between stars anyway assuming it doesn't crash into one?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,385 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    G-Money wrote: »
    I'm a bit confused by the term interstellar. The article says it's going into interstellar space now, which is the space between stars. I'm a real newbie to all this but isn't it always between stars anyway assuming it doesn't crash into one?

    In this instance what they mean by interstellar space is basically where the solar wind from our Sun ceases and the space between the stars begins. Imagine the Sun is constantly blowing out a vast bubble into space:

    800px-PIA12375.jpg

    Eventually that bubble can no longer keep expanding because of pressure from interstellar space.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭Kersh


    Iirc Voyager 1 passes close to a star in about 40,000 years :eek:

    Voyager 2 will encounter Barnards star in about 8500 years.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭G-Money


    I need to find some newbie's guide to space. I've started to develop a bit of an interest in it recently but I don't know the first thing about it. Although I need to find something that doesn't explain jargon with more jargon!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    G-Money wrote: »
    I'm a bit confused by the term interstellar. The article says it's going into interstellar space now, which is the space between stars. I'm a real newbie to all this but isn't it always between stars anyway assuming it doesn't crash into one?
    Within the solar system it's called "Interplanetary Space" and outside that it's "Interstellar Space", and the space between the galaxies is "Intergalactic Space".
    The terms for space travel are similar, we have sent quite a few probes on Interplanetary journeys, to Mars, Venus, Jupiter........etc, the Voyager and Pioneer probes as they leave interplanetary space will become interstellar travellers, and we can only dream of intergalactic travel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    442px-Pale_Blue_Dot.png
    Seen from 6 billion kilometres (3.7 billion miles), Earth appears as a "pale blue dot" (the blueish-white speck approximately halfway down the brown band to the right).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 773 ✭✭✭D_murph


    What were those bands anyway?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    D_murph wrote: »
    What were those bands anyway?

    Here is the answer comrade space watcher , click on the link and read the text :cool:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭dominiquecruz


    ..newbie alert! :p Can I ask a question? I know we lost contact with Pioneer 10 almost 9 years ago now, but do they have any theoretical ideas on whereabouts it might be? I mean, was this not the first man-made object to travel into interstellar space, albeit undocumented/recorded?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    ..newbie alert! :p Can I ask a question? I know we lost contact with Pioneer 10 almost 9 years ago now, but do they have any theoretical ideas on whereabouts it might be? I mean, was this not the first man-made object to travel into interstellar space, albeit undocumented/recorded?

    The last we heard was on January 23, 2003 when it was 12 billion-kilometers (80 AU) from Earth

    They tried in 2006 when they thought they had a window but no response. They reakon its power is to low.

    http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000477/

    :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    Looks like Voyager 1 may have made it to the edge of the solar system. Shooting along at just over 60,000 km/hr, and with roughly 13 years power left, data being sent back should start to get pretty interesting.
    (Reuters) - The Voyager 1 space probe has reached the edge of the solar system, extending its record for being the most distant man-made object in space.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/15/us-space-voyager-probe-idUSBRE85E0VU20120615


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    What are the chances of another craft overtaking it before it gets to the next nearest star system?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    What are the chances of another craft overtaking it before it gets to the next nearest star system?

    Well if we significantly advance propulsion and send one out that way then yeah? 73600 years before it reaches the nearest star.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    I find it simply amazing that we can detect a faint signal from such a far away object. For me it's as if someone is whistling on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic (the Star Trek theme tune..?) and it's being picked up at the The Cliffs of Moher.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    BBC wrote: »
    They were then despatched towards deep space, in the general direction of the centre of our Milky Way Galaxy.


    Their plutonium power sources will stop generating electricity in about 10-15 years, at which point their instruments and transmitters will die.
    The Voyagers will then become "silent ambassadors" from Earth as they move through the Milky Way.


    Voyager 1 is on course to approach a star called AC +793888, but it will only get to within two light-years of it.


    Voyager 2 was launched before Voyager 1 and was put on a slower path to interstellar space. It is currently 14.7 billion km from Earth.


    It is hurtling towards a star named Ross 248, but, again, even at its closest, it will still be a whole light-year away.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18458478

    According to above
    So both these Voyagers have been pointed at stars but will never get to them and will run out of juice first.

    I don;t understand this BBC piece does it mean voyager will slow down and stop before reaching the star.
    Would it not keep going at its current speed forever unless something stops it in a vacuum.



    So they are not Starships just interstellar medium probes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    How fast could we get a robot-probe to the nearest star with current Tech
    and can we construct one with power to last that long

    In otherwords Are we capable of sending out robot starships yet?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18458478

    According to above
    So both these Voyagers have been pointed at stars but will never get to them and will run out of juice first.

    I don;t understand this BBC piece does it mean voyager will slow down and stop before reaching the star.
    Would it not keep going at its current speed forever unless something stops it in a vacuum.



    So they are not Starships just interstellar medium probes.

    It means it wasn't sent out at the same speed as voyager 1. So it is travelling at a slower velocity.
    How fast could we get a robot-probe to the nearest star with current Tech
    and can we construct one with power to last that long

    In otherwords Are we capable of sending out robot starships yet?

    I'm not sure. Maybe slightly faster than one of the voyager probes. The problem is the further you need to go, the more propellant you need, the more propellant you need the bigger your ship, the bigger your ship the more propellant you need. It's a big spiral.

    Our biggest hope would be nuclear thermal rockets which wouldn't be too far off existence. Just lacks funding, some technological feats and what not to see them into fruition. But even they wouldn't see us make a huge dent in the amount of time these things would take to get there. Were talking hundreds of thousands of years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭eh2010


    ..newbie alert! :p Can I ask a question? I know we lost contact with Pioneer 10 almost 9 years ago now, but do they have any theoretical ideas on whereabouts it might be? I mean, was this not the first man-made object to travel into interstellar space, albeit undocumented/recorded?[/QUOTE

    Voyager over took it in 1998 so its far behind voyager.

    Pio10_8feb2012.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    shizz wrote: »
    The problem is the further you need to go, the more propellant you need, the more propellant you need the bigger your ship, the bigger your ship the more propellant you need. It's a big spiral

    (I have no idea what I'm talking about really) I always thought that there was no friction in space, so when you accelerate up to speed you can just fly along forever without anymore acceleration because nothing will slow you down. No?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    (I have no idea what I'm talking about really) I always thought that there was no friction in space, so when you accelerate up to speed you can just fly along forever without anymore acceleration because nothing will slow you down. No?

    Well nothing will slow you down unless your course gets changed by something's gravity which you will then have to account for. Or you can use it to sling shot, but that wouldn't be necessary in interstellar space.

    But within the solar system, space craft don't travel in straight lines, they move around be changing orbits. To travel in a straight line would result in the need for large propulsion which will require more propellant etc.
    So to exit the solar system you need a big orbit which would be a heavy burn.

    And next in order to accelerate up to the required velocity to make it quickly to another star, you basically need to continuously accelerate and then decelerate when you are nearing the location. To continuously accelerate you need to constantly be burning propellant, which obviously isn't going to happen with chemical rockets but can be done with nuclear thermal and electric propulsion.

    But again to get to those distances you will need a lot of power to power these propulsion systems.

    Just remember that space is BIG. So so so so big.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    Also space is not empty. There are things like dust, small particles, atoms, solar wind and gravity that would all eventually pull an object off course or stop it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭Squeaky the Squirrel




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    XKCD delivers again
    voyager_1.png
    So far Voyager 1 has 'left the Solar System' by passing through the termination shock three times, the heliopause twice, and once each through the heliosheath, heliosphere, heliodrome, auroral discontinuity, Heaviside layer, trans-Neptunian panic zone, magnetogap, US Census Bureau Solar System statistical boundary, Kuiper gauntlet, Oort void, and crystal sphere holding the fixed stars.


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