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National BVD Eradication Programme

  • 04-01-2012 11:30AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭


    Have many people signed up for it?

    I'm just ordering my tags for 2012 today. I see that there is a taggers on the order form - Will the ordinary calf taggers do these tags instead?


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 167 ✭✭theroad


    I think it's worth doing, especially as it'll be obligatory eventually anyway. The tags came in the post the other day and I needed a new tagger anyway. It's the same tagger as before, but without the pin. The new ones come with a detachable pin but the older one I had didn't, if you know what I mean.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    theroad wrote: »
    I think it's worth doing, especially as it'll be obligatory eventually anyway. The tags came in the post the other day and I needed a new tagger anyway. It's the same tagger as before, but without the pin. The new ones come with a detachable pin but the older one I had didn't, if you know what I mean.

    Thanks for that.
    Mine has a detatchable pin so I'll try using that first.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    I got the form for bvd tags today. I will be selling calved heifers in March. What happens if a few samples come up positive for bvd? What do you do with the heifer then?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    just off the phone to mullinahone- im a poet :D- lady explained it all to me, taggers are around €25 - cant remember exactly- you tag the calf with this new tag and the tissue comes out and you send that away... now she didnt know how long the results take... i was wondering would you bother doing fr bull calves that are going for export? is there a cost for testing to the farmer ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    I got the form for bvd tags today. I will be selling calved heifers in March. What happens if a few samples come up positive for bvd? What do you do with the heifer then?

    For PI calves, you call the knackery.

    theroad, how long did it take for the tags to come?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    whelan1 wrote: »
    ... i was wondering would you bother doing fr bull calves that are going for export? is there a cost for testing to the farmer ?
    You should do all calves, not just heifers, as the mother of a bull calve might be a PI.
    Yes there is a cost to test each sample. Here's the prices.
    http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/pdf/20111215BVDLABDESv1.0.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    what is the time frame on results? if a fr bull calf leaves the farm at 14 days ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    i know when we sent private bvd tests away to the north it took an age for the results, total pain when you are waiting to sell an animal


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 167 ✭✭theroad


    Min wrote: »
    For PI calves, you call the knackery.

    theroad, how long did it take for the tags to come?

    I think about 4 weeks. They say they'll supply quicker than that once the rush calms down.

    Yeah, definitely tissue sample everything born - live or dead. I'll probably re-test any calf that shows positive, and test the cow too. Anything positive after the 2nd test will go to the knacker's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭snowman707


    you are going to have to do 3 years testing any how and it's best to get it done sooner than later

    the new taggers will do both the bvd tags and the calf tags the "old" tagger will not do the bvd tags

    it was hoped that the left ear tag would have qualified for one of the ID tags but it wasn't sanctioned

    If you are going to do it, do all you calves,we had been notching the PB for sale and then found we had a pi in the dairy herd

    do all your calves including still born the only way the scheme will work


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    i ordered the tags and taggers, €265 also ordered the normal tags and i think that was €240 also ordered replacement tags , so mullinahone has done very well out of me today


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    My understanding of this scheme is limited at the moment, but I am inclined to join up now.
    Can I ask the following questions.
    What are the advantages of joining now as opposed to when it becomes compulsory?
    Who do I make initail contact with to join?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    Bizzum wrote: »
    My understanding of this scheme is limited at the moment, but I am inclined to join up now.
    Can I ask the following questions.
    What are the advantages of joining now as opposed to when it becomes compulsory?
    Who do I make initail contact with to join?
    by joining now , you are getting to grips with any bvd thats in your herd now, not in a few years time when the scheme is rolled out... i rang mullinahone , they where quite helpful, although i did have to ring 4 times to get to talk to someone, had also left messages and they rang me back after 6 this evening, even though i had spoken to someone earlier


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Bizzum wrote: »
    What are the advantages of joining now as opposed to when it becomes compulsory?
    You'll find out if you've BVD now rather than next year. If you have it costs you as it leads to lower productivity for a new of reasons. Also the dept compensation for PIs will only apply this year.
    Bizzum wrote: »
    Who do I make initail contact with to join?
    You don't have to contact anyone, just order the tags and taggers from Mullinahone. There's 2 different forms. 1 is for any tags you still haven't used - click here. The 2nd one is for new tags - click here. All the info you may need is at www.animalhealthireland.ie


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    Last year I tested all my suckler cows and calves with the Enfer Ear Notch test. Enfer sent me out tags similar to the ones Mullinahone are sending out now, but the numbers on the tags were just random serial numbers. They didn't match the regular ID tag numbers. How does that leave ne now with the new programme.
    I have a sheet of paper with the clear results for the enfer tag nos and the enfer tags still on the cattles ears. Officially how do I match them up?......or do I even need to.


    Also, is it advised to vaccinate the cows as part of this programme?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    just do it wrote: »
    dept compensation for PIs will only apply this year


    Thanks folks for the info.

    Regarding compensation, Are figures available?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    i didnt fill in any forms for the bvd scheme the lady on the phone in mullinahone entered me in to the scheme


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    pakalasa wrote: »
    Last year I tested all my suckler cows and calves with the Enfer Ear Notch test. Enfer sent me out tags similar to the ones Mullinahone are sending out now, but the numbers on the tags were just random serial numbers. They didn't match the regular ID tag numbers. How does that leave ne now with the new programme.
    I have a sheet of paper with the clear results for the enfer tag nos and the enfer tags still on the cattles ears. Officially how do I match them up?......or do I even need to.


    Also, is it advised to vaccinate the cows as part of this programme?

    Were they all negative?

    Unfortunately I don't think they'll be accepted as part of the official programme. The programme relies on all the year's calves been tested for 3 years in a row. Beside this, the testing you did wasn't using the official programme so I don't think it could be accepted. A call to animal health ireland would give you the official answer though.

    No I don't think you need to vaccinate the cows, unless you're buying in stock that may be positive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Bizzum wrote: »
    Thanks folks for the info.

    Regarding compensation, Are figures available?

    Here you go - Jeez I'm in fierce helpfull mood this evening!:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    whelan1 wrote: »
    i didnt fill in any forms for the bvd scheme the lady on the phone in mullinahone entered me in to the scheme

    Did you have to get a mix of tags i.e. matching tags for the yellow tags you haven't used yet, and new tags?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    she never mentioned that but i only have a few of the old set left , will take 3 weeks:eek: for the new ones to come ... can i skip on to the new ones?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    whelan1 wrote: »
    she never mentioned that but i only have a few of the old set left , will take 3 weeks:eek: for the new ones to come ... can i skip on to the new ones?

    Yeah I suppose you can skip onto the new ones. I tag all the females with an even no and have never had an issue with registering calves out of sequence. (Funnily enough the heifer calves don't come every second calf:D;)).

    You should also order tags to match any leftover yellow tags you have - no point letting them go to waste.

    Now that I think of it they should be able to amend your order as you only rang them today. Make sure you've the numbers of the unused tags you have when you're talking to them;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    just do it wrote: »
    Here you go - Jeez I'm in fierce helpfull mood this evening!:D

    Keep up the good work. I do appreciate it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 381 ✭✭manjou


    Has anyone decided which lab to send there samples to. Does it matter do you need to contact them first and is there any difference between them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    manjou wrote: »
    Has anyone decided which lab to send there samples to. Does it matter do you need to contact them first and is there any difference between them

    you should contact the lab you intend to use to get a cost per sample.
    I contacted amslabs.ie and they said 4.25 for the 30 or so that I would doing. They are doing discounts for higher volumes.
    The price guide on AHI were maximum prices as the labs had not finalised their costings when those guides had gone to print.
    i could not get onto the enfer group site yesterday... nor today
    only reason i choose them was i am cork based and so it their bvd lab


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    BVD Vaccination

    Just on this point - Are we now being told that there is no need to vaccinate, that detection and removal of the PI's is enough? I see no mention of vaccination in the AHI website. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    leaflet in the journal today , that explains alot


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    pakalasa wrote: »
    BVD Vaccination

    Just on this point - Are we now being told that there is no need to vaccinate, that detection and removal of the PI's is enough? I see no mention of vaccination in the AHI website. :(


    I think the necessity to vaccinate is down to inividual circumstances. Risk assessment basically. Your own vet would be best placed to advise.

    In time the programme is capable of eliminating BVD without vaccination. On an individual level if you buy in a lot or have porous fencing you may consider vaccination to supplement the PI removal. Eventually if the programme succeeds the need to vaccinate will be removed as only guaranteed-free animals will be traded.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    As a kid (showing my age now:() I remember cows were vaccinated for brucellosis. This was stopped, early 70's I'd guess. Then about 10 yrs later some old cows showed up as reactors because they had been vaccinated. I wonder if you vaccinate for bvd are you setting yourself up for crap in future if we start another eradication programme?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    BVD tests can look for presence of virus. Vaccination will only produce antibodies. Viruses are the important things to identify when present.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Thanks Greysides, how easy/different/expensive is it to test for antibodies vs virus?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 240 ✭✭stop thelights


    we are vaccinating for Bvd does will this affect results? cant find information on it anywhere!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    we are vaccinating for Bvd does will this affect results? cant find information on it anywhere!
    look at greysides reply above


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 240 ✭✭stop thelights


    whelan1 wrote: »
    look at greysides reply above


    Ah I have u now:pac: thanks


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Thanks Greysides, how easy/different/expensive is it to test for antibodies vs virus?

    For an individual, if you're not doing an ear notch test then it will be a blood sample, as per brucellosis test.

    I can't put my hand on a price list at the moment, these tests generally have to be sent to private labs these days. The Dept Lab Service did very well priced tests until recently.
    Antibodies are checked by an ELISA test; virus can be checked by ELISA or PCR. PCR is more expensive.

    As a rough guide €8-€15. This is to give a general idea, I can't remember specifics.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    I still don't understand why they don't recomend vaccinating. All this round of testing is going to do, is check for the presence of PI calves in the herd.
    Take for example then, a large Dairy herd that has been "closed" for years with no animals bought in. During the year BVD arrives into the herd, via the usual route for diseases, sh1ite on lorry wheels etc. Cows are in-calf about 2/3 months......what then?

    My Vet explained it to me as follows : Earnotch Test to check for presence of PI's and then vaccination then to keep the disease out.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    pakalasa wrote: »
    I still don't understand why they don't recomend vaccinating. All this round of testing is going to do, is check for the presence of PI calves in the herd.

    My Vet explained it to me as follows : Earnotch Test to check for presence of PI's and then vaccination then to keep the disease out.

    You would need to remove all PIs from a herd before vaccination would be as effective as you would want/expect it to be.
    If you were intending vaccinating during the first year of the ear-notch test then you would want to check all other animals on the farm before starting.
    This might not be too hard with some dairy herds. A bulk milk PCR would test the entire herd milking on that day in one fell swoop. Then individual blood samples could be used on the balance of the dry cows, heifers and yearlings. The numbers of these might not be huge on some farms.
    In suckler herds, the same principles. Depending on when calves/stores/finishers are sold it would be more or less feasible.

    Reading between the lines, in the assessment before the scheme was decided, vaccination with PI elimination was considered. It was obviously not decided to do it that way.

    Why?

    I'm not privy to the discussions but I'd say cost was a major factor. This scheme is CHEAP. The majority of the work is done by the farmer- in terms of collecting and handling samples.
    Throw into the equation vaccination and you're now trying to insist on the rump of reluctant participants properly vaccinating their animals at their own cost. How would you ensure that?
    It would have to be ensured as the scheme would be designed such that it would be a fundamental cornerstone.
    I can hear the complaints in my mind already.

    The way it has been left is that the end will be achieved over a longer timespan and at minimum cost. Those that can see the benefits of vaccination will be motivated to act further, those that are unwilling will still do have to do the minimum and that minimum is adequate as the scheme is designed.
    Take for example then, a large Dairy herd that has been "closed" for years with no animals bought in. During the year BVD arrives into the herd, via the usual route for diseases, sh1ite on lorry wheels etc. Cows are in-calf about 2/3 months......what then?

    The herd immunity that already exists in the animals that will carry the PIs will moderate the effect. It will be no different to if it had happened without going for the ear notch testing.

    Eventually this years calves will come due to go in-calf and it would be important at that stage that BVD is under some degree of control.

    However, it's here that that horrible word 'BIOSECURITY' raises it's head.

    It has been like a throw-away phrase that was occassionally paid lip-service. It's now going to have to be taken seriously. It's time agriculture grew up and shouldered some responsibility for it's own diseases rather than seeing disease eradication as something that has been foisted upon it. The disinfection measures instituted during the FMD months were quickly forgotten.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    pakalasa wrote: »
    I still don't understand why they don't recomend vaccinating. All this round of testing is going to do, is check for the presence of PI calves in the herd.
    Take for example then, a large Dairy herd that has been "closed" for years with no animals bought in. During the year BVD arrives into the herd, via the usual route for diseases, sh1ite on lorry wheels etc. Cows are in-calf about 2/3 months......what then?

    My Vet explained it to me as follows : Earnotch Test to check for presence of PI's and then vaccination then to keep the disease out.

    Have a look here. This goes into vaccination in great detail. In your case where you've been vaccinating (I believe you said this earlier?) see page 19. My opinion is you may as well keep it up for another 2 years i.e. until the end of the first compulsory year of the scheme. Re-evaluate at that point in time.

    The single biggest, and by far the most important, way BVD enters a farm is through contact with animals excreting the virus, usually bought in animals. Don't overplay other means of entry such as dirty wheels etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭LivInt20


    Redesigned website.

    Excellent source of information.

    www.animalhealthireland.ie/index.php


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    I heard last night that there's over 200,000 tissue tags ordered in the first week of the programme. Fantastic response to a purely voluntary scheme! Fair play to the Animal Health Ireland people.

    LC


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    LostCovey wrote: »
    I heard last night that there's over 200,000 tissue tags ordered in the first week of the programme. Fantastic response to a purely voluntary scheme! Fair play to the Animal Health Ireland people.

    LC

    +1, agree wholeheartedly. They could have thrown in the towel over the issue with the tags last autumn and the whole programme could have died a quiet death.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭whelan1


    just got letter from glanbia/ enfer for their bvd testing scheme... cost per sample is€3.90 and will be deducted from your glanbia trading account- very handy rather than sending cheques etc..., we will be supplied with pre addressed envelopes and plastic bags ( doesnt say pre paid envelope:o)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Micheal H


    Going to sign up for this now, but I already have a few calves 2 - 3 weeks old. The AHI site says to take the tissue sample within 7 days of birth. Is this just recommended practice or is it not allowed to be taken after 7 days?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    It's to minimise the chances of a transient infection causing a false positive result of persistent infection i.e. take the sample before the animal is exposed to circulating infection.
    All positive results need to be rechecked as a matter of course.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Alibaba


    Don't know much about this BVD testing but do I have to test all the cattle including the cows or just this years new born calves ..


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    For the purposes of this programme, yes.

    As PI cows always produce PI calves, and the lynch-pin of this programme is to detect and cull PIs, then a positive calf result indicates a need to check out the mother who may, or may not, be a PI.

    A calf who is negative (not a PI) means that the mother is negative (not a PI) also.

    So testing this years calves is giving a good pointer to the status of the animals which calve this year.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Does it matter which ear the BVD tag is put in to?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    There's been no mention of it and it's not an official dept tag so.................... if the calf is right handed put it in the right, otherwise the left.;)

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    greysides wrote: »
    There's been no mention of it and it's not an official dept tag so.................... if the calf is right handed put it in the right, otherwise the left.;)

    ok lol :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    If all PI's are removed from the national herd will the country be BVD free?


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