Help With My Programme

Orando Broom · 17-02-2012 10:43AM #1

I have a few questions, mainly pertaining to the squat but also lifting in general.

I am 6' 4" 240lbs. with regards squatting (and Deadlift & Benchpress) are there benchmarks for when you are doing enough reps weight. For background I play soccer once a week do sprint training once a week play squash and swim once a week too.

Currently I squat (power rack) 100kg 3X8. my primary sports are soccer and gaelic football.

I bench 80kgs 3X8 with strain towards the last few in the last set.

Since I've started a concerted squad/dead/bench/pull up/chin up programme I've found it hugely beneficial. The improvement in shooting on my weaker left foot is amazing.

I don't want to sell myself short by not progressing to higher weights but also I don't want to bulk up too much. I read somewhere (it was a weight lifting forum) that the ideal is 1.5 times your body weight on the bench and something like 2 times for squat and 2.5 for deadlift. Is that a reasonable assumption?

I think I could go higher on the squat but I do find it a bit severe across the shoulders and down my back so I sacrifice weight for form.

Sorry if this is a little incoherent but any advice really would be appreciated.

TheStickyBandit · 17-02-2012 11:33AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

I bench 80kgs 3X8 with strain towards the last few in the last set.

You should be able to press more than this! I had trouble with my chest for a while and I found upping the reps with the same weight helped an awful lot. Plus you should never really do 3 sets of 80kg, I would try;
12x60kg
12x70kg
12x80kg, with a few forced reps at the end or else just negative reps if you've nothing in the tank.

This helped my endurance while pressing, as you're doing more than another set than what you're currently doing. I went from getting 3 or 4 reps of 100kg to doing full sets of 120 with ease.

I think I could go higher on the squat but I do find it a bit severe across the shoulders and down my back so I sacrifice weight for form.

There's no need for you to squat heavier tbh as you stated you seem to do lots of sports which are always working your legs. Fairplay for not being a hero about it anyway. Although I would say start small, add 5kgs either side and see how that goes.

Mellor · 17-02-2012 11:41AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

I don't want to sell myself short by not progressing to higher weights but also I don't want to bulk up too much.

You can stronger without getting bigger.
You are currently doing 8 reps, thats the rep range recommended for size gains.
Increase the weight, and drop to 5 reps. Increase the weight when you can do 5 proper reps.

Orando Broom · 17-02-2012 12:06PM

TheStickyBandit wrote: »

You should be able to press more than this! I had trouble with my chest for a while and I found upping the reps with the same weight helped an awful lot. Plus you should never really do 3 sets of 80kg, I would try;
12x60kg
12x70kg
12x80kg, with a few forced reps at the end or else just negative reps if you've nothing in the tank.

This helped my endurance while pressing, as you're doing more than another set than what you're currently doing. I went from getting 3 or 4 reps of 100kg to doing full sets of 120 with ease.

There's no need for you to squat heavier tbh as you stated you seem to do lots of sports which are always working your legs. Fairplay for not being a hero about it anyway. Although I would say start small, add 5kgs either side and see how that goes.

Thanks for the reply.

Is there not an imbalance though in being able to bench say 100kg and only being able to squat the same?

Orando Broom · 17-02-2012 12:08PM

Mellor wrote: »

You can stronger without getting bigger.
You are currently doing 8 reps, thats the rep range recommended for size gains.
Increase the weight, and drop to 5 reps. Increase the weight when you can do 5 proper reps.

Thanks for this. Would you have an opinion on my squat? Also with that rep/weight change would I stay at that for long and switch back to higher reps at any stage?

Mellor · 17-02-2012 12:32PM

TheStickyBandit wrote: »

Plus you should never really do 3 sets of 80kg, I would try;

Nonsense. Working up to a max set, or doing 3 or 5 sets at you work weight are doing two different approaches. Doing which ever you prefer is fine, but saying you should never do more than one top set one is nonsense

There's no need for you to squat heavier tbh as you stated you seem to do lots of sports which are always working your legs.

Resistance training (squats) and cardio based stuff (football) are completely different and neither takes the place of the other.

If he gets stronger, then he should squat heavier.

Orando Broom wrote: »

Thanks for this. Would you have an opinion on my squat? Also with that rep/weight change would I stay at that for long and switch back to higher reps at any stage?

Nope. I'd stick with 5 reps. Just keep getting stronger.

Orando Broom · 17-02-2012 12:45PM

Mellor wrote: »

Nonsense. Working up to a max set, or doing 3 or 5 sets at you work weight are doing two different approaches. Doing which ever you prefer is fine, but saying you should never do more than one top set one is nonsense

Resistance training (squats) and cardio based stuff (football) are completely different and neither takes the place of the other.

If he gets stronger, then he should squat heavier.

Nope. I'd stick with 5 reps. Just keep getting stronger.

Thanks for that advice. I'll start putting it into practice this weekend.

Last question, should I drop to five reps per set for the squat too?

Mellor · 17-02-2012 01:35PM

Orando Broom wrote: »

Last question, should I drop to five reps per set for the squat too?

yeah. Squat, bench press, deadlift. And overhead press. All the main compound lifts.

Assistance and isolation stuff like chest flys, curls, push downs, single leg stuff can be kept in the 8-12 range. Add weight when you are hitting 12 reps for an exercise so your reps drop down

TheStickyBandit · 17-02-2012 04:33PM

Mellor wrote: »

Nonsense. Working up to a max set, or doing 3 or 5 sets at you work weight are doing two different approaches. Doing which ever you prefer is fine, but saying you should never do more than one top set one is nonsense

Nonsense, really? He didn't ask for what he'd prefer! Dorian Yates devised the two warm up sets and one working set approach and it has worked for countless ammounts of people!

Resistance training (squats) and cardio based stuff (football) are completely different and neither takes the place of the other.

If he gets stronger, then he should squat heavier.

I was implying that he doesn't need to squat much more than 100kg when he's not training for rugby for example, he will get a good workout from doing good form at 100kgs while still maintaining good flexibility and mobility for the sports hes playing.

You seemed to just pick apart my reply rather than giving any solid advice of youre own! "just do starting strength" is all youre saying!

Mellor · 18-02-2012 07:27AM

TheStickyBandit wrote: »

Nonsense, really? He didn't ask for what he'd prefer! Dorian Yates devised the two warm up sets and one working set approach and it has worked for countless ammounts of people!

Warming to to a max set does work. I actually do that myself. I said it works in my post. There's no issue with suggesting it. Saying you should NEVER do multiple work sets is what I called nonsense.

I was implying that he doesn't need to squat much more than 100kg when he's not training for rugby for example, he will get a good workout from doing good form at 100kgs while still maintaining good flexibility and mobility for the sports hes playing.

I didn't say he needs to train like a power lifter or anything. But there's no reason not to get stronger, even a little. If he drops reps, load will go up any way.

You seemed to just pick apart my reply rather than giving any solid advice of youre own! "just do starting strength" is all youre saying!

I gave my opinions on how he should change things.
I never mentioned starting strength. I said drop reps to 5 for the main compounds, as that's strength bias. Lots of strength programs follow that not just SS. I left sets to him.
I also advised on assistance lifts at higher reps. Basically very little similar to SS

TheStickyBandit · 20-02-2012 10:34AM

Mellor wrote: »

Warming to to a max set does work. I actually do that myself. I said it works in my post. There's no issue with suggesting it. Saying you should NEVER do multiple work sets is what I called nonsense.

I didn't say he needs to train like a power lifter or anything. But there's no reason not to get stronger, even a little. If he drops reps, load will go up any way.

I gave my opinions on how he should change things.
I never mentioned starting strength. I said drop reps to 5 for the main compounds, as that's strength bias. Lots of strength programs follow that not just SS. I left sets to him.
I also advised on assistance lifts at higher reps. Basically very little similar to SS

Fair enough! I guess I should of used a different word other than 'never', but tbh I dont see a point in doing the same weight for all sets. I would either work up to a weight or do a pyramid set, it's just better!

A question for the OP, when you say you're 'benching', are you doing flat, incline or decline? or are you alternating? In most cases decline pressing will allow you to press a few extra kg's. I tend to do either incline or dcline as I dont get as good results when pressing flat.

Orando Broom · 20-02-2012 10:50AM

TheStickyBandit wrote: »

Fair enough! I guess I should of used a different word other than 'never', but tbh I dont see a point in doing the same weight for all sets. I would either work up to a weight or do a pyramid set, it's just better!

A question for the OP, when you say you're 'benching', are you doing flat, incline or decline? or are you alternating? In most cases decline pressing will allow you to press a few extra kg's. I tend to do either incline or dcline as I dont get as good results when pressing flat.

Flat bench using a 20kg olympic bar with the plates.

Mellor · 20-02-2012 11:27AM

TheStickyBandit wrote: »

Fair enough! I guess I should of used a different word other than 'never', but tbh I dont see a point in doing the same weight for all sets. I would either work up to a weight or do a pyramid set, it's just better!

For me it varies.
If its a first time attempting a PB, that I think will be pretty tough, I taper to the set. But if i've hit it before, but not recently (say after a break) I work up in full sets. Or if its something comfortable, i'll work up quicker and do 3 or so top sets.

Basically i vary it a lot depending how I feel about the work set. So I think each has its place

TheStickyBandit · 20-02-2012 11:52AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

Flat bench using a 20kg olympic bar with the plates.

Try and vary it a bit so, your muscles get used to the same weight/exercise after a short while!

Mellor wrote: »

For me it varies.
If its a first time attempting a PB, that I think will be pretty tough, I taper to the set. But if i've hit it before, but not recently (say after a break) I work up in full sets. Or if its something comfortable, i'll work up quicker and do 3 or so top sets.

Basically i vary it a lot depending how I feel about the work set. So I think each has its place

Taper? I'm a bit confused

Upwards is it?

Mellor · 21-02-2012 12:14AM

Instead of working up, 60kg,80kg,90kg,95kg x 5, I sometimes taper the reps so that its more like; 60kgx5, 80kgx4, 90kgx3, 95kgx2 and then try 100kgx5. That way, you still work up to the weight, but the total work is less. And might be enough to get the last rep.

I don't always do it, just if I think the PR is really pushing 100% effort, or if I just missed the last rep last time after a working up 4 sets of 5.

Colm Moran · 21-02-2012 06:50PM

Squat - Adult Men
All numbers are in KG's and are one max rep calculations.
Body Weight Un-trained Novice Intermediate Advanced Elite
52 35.0 65.0 80.0 107.5 145.0
56 37.5 70.0 87.5 117.5 157.5

60 40.0 77.5 92.5 127.5 167.5
67 45.0 85.0 105.0 142.5 185.0
75 50.0 92.5 112.5 155.0 202.5
82 55.0 100.0 122.5 167.5 217.5
90 57.5 105.0 130.0 177.5 230.0
100 60.0 110.0 135.0 185.0 240.0
110 62.5 115.0 140.0 192.5 250.0
125 65.0 117.5 145.0 197.5 257.5
145 67.5 122.5 147.5 202.5 262.5
145+ 70.0 125.0 150.0 207.5 270.0

So if you are 110Kg as a novice you should be squating 115kg's for one rep.
To calculate your one max rep use this formula;

(Weight)(reps)(0.0333)+weight.

So.. (100Kg)(8reps)(0.0333)+100Kg=125Kg
This 125kg is your predicted 1 max rep.
Putting you in the novice catagory.

Untrained
Expected level of strength in a healthy individual who has not trained on the exercise before but can perform it correctly. This represents the minimum level of strength required to maintain a reasonable quality of life in a sedentary individual.

Novice
A person training regularly for a period of 3-9 months. This strength level supports the demands of vigorous recreational activities.

Intermediate
A person who has engaged in regular training for up to two years. The intermediate level indicates some degree of specialization in the exercises and a high level of performance at the recreational level.

Advanced
An individual with multi-year training experience with definite goals in the higher levels of competitive athletics.

Elite
Refers specifically to athletes competing in strength sports. Approximately 2% of the weight training population will attain this level.

Because of you sports of choice it would be unrealistic for you to aim any higher than the intermediate group.A good long term goal for your squat would be 140kg on 1 max rep which is about 110kgx8reps. Two times your bodyweight would be 220kg which is totally unrealistic if you are not a highly dedicated competative lifter.

Please also note that these figures are for full squats; the ASIS (bony point at the front of your hip) goes bellow the top of the knee for a completed full squat.

I can provide figures for bench and deadlift if you find this helpful.

Refereces
Dr. Lon Kilgore, PhD
"Practical Programming" by Kilgore, Rippetoe, and Pendlay
"Starting Strength" by Rippetoe and Kilgore,
published performance standards for the sports of powerlifting and weightlifting.

Help With My Programme

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