Assisting in a death... are you guilty of murder?

RachaelVO · 12-03-2012 05:30PM #1

Was just reading about Tony Nicklinson, he has been granted permission to proceed with a court case to ensure that any doctor who assists him with his death is not guilty of murder, so he can end his life lawfully (they don't think it's a case he can win)!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0312/nicklinsont.html

The High Court in London has ruled that a severely disabled British man, who wants a doctor to be able to lawfully end his life, can proceed with his court case.
Judge William Charles ruled that Tony Nicklinson, who is paralysed from the neck down but whose mental faculties are unaffected, can continue his legal fight to ensure that a doctor who kills him would not face a murder charge.

(For anyone on a phone, I would have quoted more, but what with Mr Sherlock and his laws, probably best not to)

I'm in two minds on this one! One part of me is very much of the opinion when my turn comes around I'm going out the same way I came in, kicking and screaming....

BUT, then I think about what if I was in so much pain and the quality of my life was total shite, and do I want to be a burden on my family and loved ones. Surely I don't!

Then there's the case of what if it was someone I loved, could I help them do it? Not so sure I could, I found it really difficult when we had to get our dog put to sleep, how would I feel if it was someone I REALLY loved!

I know it's such a divisive issue, but if you assist someone who has no quality of life or someone who is terminally ill to end their lives are you morally guilty of murder? (not asking legally here cos we know the answer to that)

Seachmall · 12-03-2012 05:32PM

Well you are undoubtedly assisting in a suicide, not necessarily murder.

I don't think that should be a crime however.

Temptamperu · 12-03-2012 05:33PM

Euthinasia should be legal, it would be horrible being paralyzed from the neck down with your full faculties. I would much prefar to lose my mind than my body but in either case i should be allowed choose.

Its ok to put a dog out of its misery but sure f**K people let them suffer. :rolleyes:

WoollyRedHat · 12-03-2012 05:35PM

People who are against Euthinsia for whatever their agenda is, are selfish....
They do not have the right to exert their own beliefs, without even a modicum of understanding and indeed compassion for what those who desire euthinasia are going through.

krudler · 12-03-2012 05:36PM

Course not, its not cold blooded and its not something I ever want to find myself on either side of.

RachaelVO · 12-03-2012 05:38PM

krudler wrote: »

Course not, its not cold blooded and its not something I ever want to find myself on either side of.

Me either, I'd perish at the thought

l.m · 12-03-2012 05:38PM

In my opinion this is not assisting in murder. If you are in too much physical and emotional pain, seeing no point in living, I think you should have the right to die. I know my answer is going to be disagreed with alot though. I get that loved ones are being left behind, but they need to try understand things from the person sufferings point of view.

FoxT · 12-03-2012 05:40PM

I agree that Euthanasia should be legal - but controls need to be put in place so people dont start bumping off their ageing relatives for inheritance/convenience/etc.

I am a bit concerned that modern medicine can, at times, err on the side of prolonging life even when 'quality of life' has gone.

token101 · 12-03-2012 05:41PM

No. You're assisting a suicide. It's not murder and it shouldn't carry a sentence anywhere close to it either.

Not too sure about Euthanasia myself. Not for some stupid daft religious reason, but I would be afraid that people who need constant care may feel like they are placing a burden on loved ones and might just feel like they should die to let people 'get on with their lives'. But forcing people to live, when they have no will to, is far worse. It's a very tough call.

cartell_best · 12-03-2012 05:52PM

No, you're not guilty of murder. If somebody thats close to you, soo much so that all you can do is watch them fade away. The only progression you can see is for that loved one to pass away, in as much comfort as possible.

And yeah, if someone I love was to cry in agony and pray for an end, then I would have no hesitation in helping them. I wouldn't do it to an animal I ran over in the car. If it came to someone I love? Then condemn me to a life sentence in Mountjoy! and I do not say that in any way of a light manner.

Park Royal · 12-03-2012 05:52PM

There is a point when the balance tips.....

when it is just a matter of time.....

the end is very near.......

it should be a point of honour to help another ease out of this life

without pain......

its recognising the absolute end that is required...

rather than a premature departure......IMHO

angry kitten · 12-03-2012 06:00PM

Its certainly an emotive issue. Personally I believe that people should have the right to assisted suicide if they are terminally ill, although I don't think that its something that should be forced on doctors. I think that its time for a grown up review of assisted suicide. I often hear people arguing against it on the grounds that the elderly will be murdered for the convenience of their family if assisted suicide were legalised, which frankly is a ludicrous argument. It's inhuman to force people who are terminally ill to suffer a protracted and often agonising death. As far as I can see the argument against it is made on moral and ethical grounds, I'm all for morals and ethics, as long as they aren't at somebody else's expense.

ScumLord · 12-03-2012 06:06PM

Murder is a legal definition so it all depends on what the law of the land says. I'm not against it but only as a very last resort.

People can live fulfilling lives with purpose despite their bodies ability. Some people can even say accidents that leave them paralysed can open them up to completely new ways of thinking which inspires other action in their life. It's all about a state of mind and if a person is in the right state of mind they can make all kinds of achievements that even the most able bodied of person may not even consider.

It incredibly hard though. It is a life of non stop hard work that nobody but people in that position can understand and personally I don't know if I'd want to live like that, but I also know that life isn't fair. It was never meant to be easy, but it's all there is and it's always worth fighting for because you just never know what's coming around the corner. I'd always say fight on but I wouldn't force anyone to live a life of suffering.

forfuxsake · 12-03-2012 06:11PM

it would turn into bedlam.

My granny is very sick and in great pain and suffering from Alzeimher's. Doesn't even know her own name. She is in great pain, is she a candidate?

My cousin suffers from depression and has tried to kill herself many times. She says she can't bear to live another day. Is she a candidate?

My father is ill but it's not terminal, although he will have to sell his house to pay for round the clock care. He would prefer to die and leave the house to his kids. Can he play too?

I'm all for euthanasia as long as somebody can explain to me the circumstances in which it would be allowed. and then guarantee that they won't be changed.

In reality I had 2 grandparents who were both euthanised by doctors in Ireland. The practice is common and at the discretion of the doctor and the family.

ScumLord · 12-03-2012 06:22PM

forfuxsake wrote: »

it would turn into bedlam.

My granny is very sick and in great pain and suffering from Alzeimher's. Doesn't even know her own name. She is in great pain, is she a candidate?

I would have thought she couldn't make those kind of decisions legally?

My cousin suffers from depression and has tried to kill herself many times. She says she can't bear to live another day. Is she a candidate?

I wouldn't say depression would be considered as it's a treatable condition.

My father is ill but it's not terminal, although he will have to sell his house to pay for round the clock care. He would prefer to die and leave the house to his kids. Can he play too?

I would think euthanasia would only become an option when the pain becomes to great and/or mobility is gone. Financial or convenience reasoning wouldn't come into it.

MungBean · 12-03-2012 06:22PM

Its a tough one because there's many a cancer patient in no fit mental state because of medication who's family has to decide for them with the advice of a doctor whether or not to up their dosage to deal with possible pain.

Thats as things stand now, the dosage or morphine is increased in the final stages to such a degree that it stops the breathing of a patient. So euthanasia happens here, its not assisted suicide because a lot of the time the patient doesnt ask for this to happen but then again its not murder.

I think it should be legal anyway so people can choose to die before having to go through all this. I also think that any adult human being who wished to terminate their own life should be allowed to do so. I'm not saying go in and have it done there and then, it should only happen after quite extensive therapy and different programs aimed at deterring the person but I think if the option was there people would seek it out and go through the programs and possibly get help rather than doing it spontaneously after having it in the back of their mind but refusing to deal with it.

forfuxsake · 12-03-2012 06:31PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I would have thought she couldn't make those kind of decisions legally?

I wouldn't say depression would be considered as it's a treatable condition.

I would think euthanasia would only become an option when the pain becomes to great and/or mobility is gone. Financial or convenience reasoning wouldn't come into it.

At the beginning but then someone would go to the European Court of Human Rights and argue that their depression is untreatable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5364400.stm

Once you allow the practice, you don't know where it will stop. This government may not allow it for depression but what about the next or the next.

My grandparents got too high a morphine dose. It went like this.

'isn't there anything you can do'
'I could giver her this dose of morphine but it could kill her'
'anything, please stop her suffering'
the end.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-03-2012 07:02PM

Legal in Switzerland. Do it there.

KTRIC · 12-03-2012 07:07PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Legal in Switzerland. Do it there.

I was just reading about Dignitas today. They provide an assisted suicide service even to healthy people of sound body and mind. They even do an all in package for €7000, where they'll sort out the funeral etc. Seems like a good deal for someone that wants a clean exit.

On the moral side of it I think its a personal choice, your life is the only thing you actually have any control over. If you choose to end it if you're terminally ill or just want out then I don't see why not.

forfuxsake · 12-03-2012 07:09PM

KTRIC wrote: »

I was just reading about Dignitas today. They provide an assisted suicide service even to healthy people of sound body and mind. They even do an all in package for €7000, where they'll sort out the funeral etc. Seems like a good deal for someone that wants a clean exit.

On the moral side of it I think its a personal choice, your life is the only thing you actually have any control over. If you choose to end it if you're terminally ill or just want out then I don't see why not.

€7000? Do they take credit cards?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-03-2012 07:19PM

KTRIC wrote: »

I was just reading about Dignitas today. They provide an assisted suicide service even to healthy people of sound body and mind. They even do an all in package for €7000, where they'll sort out the funeral etc. Seems like a good deal for someone that wants a clean exit.

On the moral side of it I think its a personal choice, your life is the only thing you actually have any control over. If you choose to end it if you're terminally ill or just want out then I don't see why not.

Now if I they had the 7k, they might not be suicidal!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-03-2012 07:20PM

forfuxsake wrote: »

€7000? Do they take credit cards?

Intesting point...

12-03-2012 07:21PM

forfuxsake wrote: »

My grandparents got too high a morphine dose. It went like this.

'isn't there anything you can do'
'I could giver her this dose of morphine but it could kill her'
'anything, please stop her suffering'
the end.

So euthanasia, except without legal protection for the doctor and the people involved in the decision?

RachaelVO · 12-03-2012 07:23PM

KTRIC wrote: »

I was just reading about Dignitas today. They provide an assisted suicide service even to healthy people of sound body and mind. They even do an all in package for €7000, where they'll sort out the funeral etc. Seems like a good deal for someone that wants a clean exit.

On the moral side of it I think its a personal choice, your life is the only thing you actually have any control over. If you choose to end it if you're terminally ill or just want out then I don't see why not.

Assisted suicide to healthy people???

Now that I have to admit I have a HUGE problem with! How can that be justified? That's walking the line of murder for me!

KTRIC · 12-03-2012 07:28PM

RachaelVO wrote: »

Assisted suicide to healthy people???

Now that I have to admit I have a HUGE problem with! How can that be justified? That's walking the line of murder for me!

Yes, but you will have to have several sessions with a phycologist first so they can determine its the best thing for you.

Why wouldn't it be justified, just say for example someone wants to end it because they're fed up with life in general and is happy to go. Wouldn't it be better for them to go to the likes of Dignitas or Exit and do it properly rather than a sloppy attempt which is usually a cry for help.

RachaelVO · 12-03-2012 07:32PM

KTRIC wrote: »

Yes, but you will have to have several sessions with a phycologist first so they can determine its the best thing for you.

Why wouldn't it be justified, just say for example someone wants to end it because they're fed up with life in general and is happy to go. Wouldn't it be better for them to go to the likes of Dignitas or Exit and do it properly rather than a sloppy attempt which is usually a cry for help.

Being fed up is not a reason for assisted suicide IMO! Do a sloppy cry for help by all means, but someone who is making a cry for help is most certainly not a candidate for assisted suicide. They just couldn't be!

forfuxsake · 12-03-2012 07:41PM

28064212 wrote: »

So euthanasia, except without legal protection for the doctor and the people involved in the decision?

Yes and without a law that is open to abuse.

You can't break the law on speeding but if ye were rushing your wife to hospital in a life-threatening situation the guards might turn a blind eye.

Doesn't mean we should make speeding legal.

I honestly believe that if someone with 'locked-in' syndrome were to die, then there would be little done to find out what happened especially if the doctor knew what happened.

This is not ideal, but then neither is making euthanasia legal.

My name is URL · 12-03-2012 07:48PM

I'm always torn about this subject. Of course it should be an option for people, but I really don't think it should be an option for everyone. Imo, if a doctor deems it to be a viable course to take then it should be offered to the person in the same way any other treatment or palliative care option is offered.

MungBean · 12-03-2012 08:05PM

RachaelVO wrote: »

Assisted suicide to healthy people???

Now that I have to admit I have a HUGE problem with! How can that be justified? That's walking the line of murder for me!

Whats the difference in assisting someone with a terminal illness and someone who's perfectly healthy ?

In both cases it is a person who wishes to end their life being assisted in doing it. Its the persons decision to do it that mitigates the murder charge not their reasons. Killing someone who has cancer who doesnt wish to die is still murder regardless of the reasons your doing it.

angry kitten · 12-03-2012 08:26PM

MungBean wrote: »

Whats the difference in assisting someone with a terminal illness and someone who's perfectly healthy ?

In both cases it is a person who wishes to end their life being assisted in doing it. Its the persons decision to do it that mitigates the murder charge not their reasons. Killing someone who has cancer who doesnt wish to die is still murder regardless of the reasons your doing it.

Of course killing someone who doesn't want to die is murder. What we're discussing is assisted suicide for sick people who want to die,they are two entirely different things.

12-03-2012 08:29PM

forfuxsake wrote: »

Yes and without a law that is open to abuse.

You can't break the law on speeding but if ye were rushing your wife to hospital in a life-threatening situation the guards might turn a blind eye.

Doesn't mean we should make speeding legal.

What you've described is a reason for making speeding legal in limited circumstances, or for allowing judges to activate a "mitigating circumstances" clause. Having a legal system that relies on a garda "doing the right thing" is a recipe for disaster. What would have happened if your father had disagreed with one of his siblings on the high morphine dose and the doctor had done it anyway, because he knew your grandparent wanted to die?

KTRIC · 12-03-2012 08:30PM

RachaelVO wrote: »

Being fed up is not a reason for assisted suicide IMO! Do a sloppy cry for help by all means, but someone who is making a cry for help is most certainly not a candidate for assisted suicide. They just couldn't be!

And thats what would be picked up on by the phycologists during the interviews. Of sound body and mind is usually not someone who is depressed and wants to end it or a hormonal teenager looking for attention.

MungBean · 12-03-2012 09:08PM

angry kitten wrote: »

Of course killing someone who doesn't want to die is murder. What we're discussing is assisted suicide for sick people who want to die,they are two entirely different things.

I know that, my point is whats the issue in killing someone who doesnt want to die ? Its not the reasons for doing it, its the act of doing it. The act itself is wrong.

So why when it comes to assisted suicide can the morality of it be based on their reason for doing it ? Whether healthy or sick the act itself is the same. Just as killing someone against their will is wrong regardless of the reasons your doing it. Why is it not the same with assisted suicide ? Its either right or its wrong regardless of the reasons for doing it.

I'm in favour of euthanasia by the way.

RachaelVO · 12-03-2012 09:15PM

KTRIC wrote: »

And thats what would be picked up on by the phycologists during the interviews. Of sound body and mind is usually not someone who is depressed and wants to end it or a hormonal teenager looking for attention.

I know you're saying they get therapy and psychological testing and stuff, but I still find it very disturbing that they would allow, for the price of 7k a healthy person, supposedly of sound body and mind, die!

It would kill me off if it was someone I loved and cared for who was terminally ill. I know it would. I'd be a gibbering wreck, but if it was someone I loved who was NOT terminally ill I'd be so angry, and I would look to find some form of recourse (legally of course). I can't equate someone wanting just to end their life just because the can with being of sound body and mind! Just doesn't sit right at all!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-03-2012 09:18PM

RachaelVO wrote: »

I know you're saying they get therapy and psychological testing and stuff, but I still find it very disturbing that they would allow, for the price of 7k a healthy person, supposedly of sound body and mind, die!

It would kill me off if it was someone I loved and cared for who was terminally ill. I know it would. I'd be a gibbering wreck, but if it was someone I loved who was NOT terminally ill I'd be so angry, and I would look to find some form of recourse (legally of course). I can't equate someone wanting just to end their life just because the can with being of sound body and mind! Just doesn't sit right at all!

If they did it withotu telling me, yes, I agree. But if it was what they genuinely wanted... (I wuold take a LOT of convinving, thoguh)

MrPudding · 12-03-2012 09:28PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Well you are undoubtedly assisting in a suicide, not necessarily murder.

I don't think that should be a crime however.

The problem is that currently it is murder. For the suicidee it is simply suicide, and whilst that used to be illegal (

) it no longer is. As Scumlord pointed out, murder is a legal term, to cause the unlawful death of a human with the intention to cause death or really serious harm. The reasons for doing it, humane or otherwise, have nothing to do with it. That is the problem and that is the reason for the case.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Legal in Switzerland. Do it there.

Even that is not simple. In this man's case, for example, he would not be capable of travelling there himself. Under the current rules anyone that simply accompanied him could face charges on return. There was a very sad case a while back of a young fella who was paralysed after a scrum collapsed. He sent to Switzerland to end his life but his family could not be with him for fear of prosecution.

forfuxsake wrote:

'isn't there anything you can do'
'I could giver her this dose of morphine but it could kill her'
'anything, please stop her suffering'
the end.

This is something different. it is a bit of a faff, but it goes something like this... Your granny was in pain, the doctor administered a drug to ease the pain. The fact that he knew the drug might also speed death is not relevant as long as he can say that the primary purpose of administering the drug was pain relief, and that other people in the profession would agree. This is a fairly common occurance, but would not be of any help to the man in the OP. He is not in pain. He wants someone to administer a drug with the sole and primary purpose of ending his life.

To be honest, this whole area is a bit of a mess. The fact that a terminally ill person can refuse all treatment and the doctors can simply let them die, but that same person cannot get help to die in a more dignified and painless way is ridiculous.

MrP

hondasam · 12-03-2012 09:42PM

KTRIC wrote: »

I was just reading about Dignitas today. They provide an assisted suicide service even to healthy people of sound body and mind. They even do an all in package for €7000, where they'll sort out the funeral etc. Seems like a good deal for someone that wants a clean exit.

On the moral side of it I think its a personal choice, your life is the only thing you actually have any control over. If you choose to end it if you're terminally ill or just want out then I don't see why not.

Are you saying they provide this service to healthy people? not just someone who has a terminal illness?

KTRIC · 12-03-2012 09:45PM

hondasam wrote: »

Are you saying they provide this service to healthy people? not just someone who has a terminal illness?

Healthy people. As in the average Joe that has absolutely nothing wrong with him be it mentally or physically and just wants to die.

angry kitten · 12-03-2012 09:45PM

MungBean wrote: »

I know that, my point is whats the issue in killing someone who doesnt want to die ? Its not the reasons for doing it, its the act of doing it. The act itself is wrong.

So why when it comes to assisted suicide can the morality of it be based on their reason for doing it ? Whether healthy or sick the act itself is the same. Just as killing someone against their will is wrong regardless of the reasons your doing it. Why is it not the same with assisted suicide ? Its either right or its wrong regardless of the reasons for doing it.

I'm in favour of euthanasia by the way.

Surely it is a matter of why the person/persons is assisting with suicide. If a terminally ill person needs and wants help to die I believe that they should have that right to and the assistance. If however a person is put to death against their will then it is an entirely different thing. I'm not sure what your point is.

MungBean · 12-03-2012 09:47PM

MrPudding wrote: »

This is something different. it is a bit of a faff, but it goes something like this... Your granny was in pain, the doctor administered a drug to ease the pain. The fact that he knew the drug might also speed death is not relevant as long as he can say that the primary purpose of administering the drug was pain relief, and that other people in the profession would agree. This is a fairly common occurance, but would not be of any help to the man in the OP. He is not in pain. He wants someone to administer a drug with the sole and primary purpose of ending his life.

But is there not something in this that its the doctor and the family deciding to end the patients life to stop the suffering. You can argue about primary purpose all you like but when the decision is made its a decision to end a persons suffering by ending their life. Anyone who has ever been in that situation knows what they are deciding, its not another painkiller its the final decision to end the suffering.

Its the same argument as euthanasia and its legal in that respect but not if the person themselves ask for it. When a terminally ill person wants to end their life their primary reason for doing is to ease the suffering no different than a family member or doctor giving a higher dose of morphine to ease suffering knowing full well it will do so by ending life.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-03-2012 09:49PM

MrPudding wrote: »

Even that is not simple. In this man's case, for example, he would not be capable of travelling there himself. Under the current rules anyone that simply accompanied him could face charges on return. There was a very sad case a while back of a young fella who was paralysed after a scrum collapsed. He sent to Switzerland to end his life but his family could not be with him for fear of prosecution.

MrP

If a man has the right to life, imo, he has aright to death also.

angry kitten · 12-03-2012 09:53PM

The reason that the patient, family and doctor are in that position is due to the fact that the patient doesn't have a right to choose assisted suicide. I wouldn't want to ever have to make that decision for someone. I would hate to see someone I love in that kind of pain and I would rather that they had the right to a dignified death rather than a prolonged agonising one. Ultimately the decision on assisted suicide should be a carefully considered one based on the wishes of the patient. Nobody should ever be forced into assisted suicide, but it should be an option that people have open to them.

MrPudding · 12-03-2012 09:54PM

MungBean wrote: »

But is there not something in this that its the doctor and the family deciding to end the patients life to stop the suffering. You can argue about primary purpose all you like but when the decision is made its a decision to end a persons suffering by ending their life. Anyone who has ever been in that situation knows what they are deciding, its not another painkiller its the final decision to end the suffering.

Its the same argument as euthanasia and its legal in that respect but not if the person themselves ask for it. When a terminally ill person wants to end their life their primary reason for doing is to ease the suffering no different than a family member or doctor giving a higher dose of morphine to ease suffering knowing full well it will do so by ending life.

I don't think it matters whether it is the patient themselves or the person acting for them as they do not have the capacity.

Like I said, it is a bit of a faff. I don't think anyone is fooled by what is going on.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

If a man has the right to life, imo, he has aright to death also.

That argument has, thusfar, not been successful.

MrP

MungBean · 12-03-2012 09:54PM

angry kitten wrote: »

Surely it is a matter of why the person/persons is assisting with suicide. If a terminally ill person needs and wants help to die they I believe that they should have that right to and the assistance. If however a person is put to death against their will then it is an entirely different thing. I'm not sure what your point is.

Sorry I probably didnt make it that clear. My point is that regardless of the reason your assisting a person to die you are assisting a person to die. Just as the reasons for murdering someone will never change the fact that it was murder.

So to me the entire morality of the situation lies with the person who wants to die. If you assist a suicide in Switzerland of a terminally ill patient who's suffering beyond belief and the person slips away as he wished and years later you confided to someone that you only did it for the money do you automatically become a murder ? Or was it still just assisted suicide ?

MrPudding · 12-03-2012 09:59PM

MungBean wrote: »

Sorry I probably didnt make it that clear. My point is that regardless of the reason your assisting a person to die you are assisting a person to die. Just as the reasons for murdering someone will never change the fact that it was murder.

Of course murdering someone is murder... Perhaps you meant that the reason for killing someone will not change whether or not it was murder? In fact the reason will.

MungBean wrote: »

So to me the entire morality of the situation lies with the person who wants to die. If you assist a suicide in Switzerland of a terminally ill patient who's suffering beyond belief and the person slips away as he wished and years later you confided to someone that you only did it for the money do you automatically become a murder ? Or was it still just assisted suicide ?

It is an interesting theoretical question, but not really a valid question as the term "murder" has a very specific meaning. It is possible for a killing to not be murder, but whether or not you were paid for it might not make a difference.

MrP

minidazzler · 12-03-2012 10:05PM

This is a man making a conscious decision to end his own life. Why should I or anyone else have anything more to say about it, if he is not doing so under duress he should be allowed to go with all the dignity and help he can.

angry kitten · 12-03-2012 10:13PM

MungBean wrote: »

Sorry I probably didnt make it that clear. My point is that regardless of the reason your assisting a person to die you are assisting a person to die. Just as the reasons for murdering someone will never change the fact that it was murder.

So to me the entire morality of the situation lies with the person who wants to die. If you assist a suicide in Switzerland of a terminally ill patient who's suffering beyond belief and the person slips away as he wished and years later you confided to someone that you only did it for the money do you automatically become a murder ? Or was it still just assisted suicide ?

If it is a terminally ill persons wish to die and they choose to pay someone to assist them to do so, in a country where assisted suicide is legal, I don't see that it matters that a person assisted them for financial reasons.

hondasam · 12-03-2012 10:16PM

KTRIC wrote: »

Healthy people. As in the average Joe that has absolutely nothing wrong with him be it mentally or physically and just wants to die.

I always assumed you had to have a terminal illness for assisted suicide. Who administers the drug is it the person themselves or the doctor?

MungBean · 12-03-2012 10:17PM

angry kitten wrote: »

If it is a terminally ill persons wish to die and they choose to pay someone to assist them to do so, in a country where assisted suicide is legal, I don't see that it matters that a person assisted them for financial reasons.

What if it was a healthy person who wishes to die and they choose to pay someone to assist them to do so in a country where that is legal ?

Would you see that as ok or wrong because they are not terminally ill ?

We seem to be going in circles, the original point I made that you responded to was that whether terminally ill or not a person should be able to choose to die. The reasons for wanting to die change nothing in relation to the morality of the act.

SeanW · 12-03-2012 10:31PM

krudler wrote: »

Course not, its not cold blooded and its not something I ever want to find myself on either side of.

Of course, noone would. But if you were in a nightmare situation of having to live a long life with no use of your body, or a painful, protracted battle with terminal illness, what would you want?

jubella · 12-03-2012 10:34PM

I can't make up my mind on whether it should be legal or not...

I have personal experience with this - I have a sibling (mid 20s) who is paralysed from the neck down and bed/chair bound. They are completely dependent on others. There have been many times where they begged for someone to help end their life, but not even 2 weeks after some incidents, they became ill and while in hospital expressed their wish to get better and stay alive.

I think it's so hard to determine whether it's truly what someone wants, because they may not even know themselves for sure.

Assisting in a death... are you guilty of murder?

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