Are Irish classical music audiences badly behaved?

Sanguine Fan · 17-12-2012 12:08PM #1

Recently I attended a wonderful recital in the NCH given by the French pianist, Philippe Cassard. However, the first half-hour or so was marred by the persistent coughing of someone about six rows behind me in the stalls. It was not too bad during the faster and louder pieces, but when Cassard played the beautiful Clair de Lune, the cougher seemed to time his/her bronchial explosions to coincide with the most delicate passages.

When the piece ended, Cassard began to exhibit signs of tension and impatience, grimacing and moving excitedly about on his seat. Then he stood up, removed a colourful handkerchief from his pocket and, standing at the edge of the stage, held it out to the audience. His tactic worked. Although coughs continued to occasionally punctuate the rest of the recital, that particular offender stayed silent for the duration. You could feel performer and audience relaxing after that startling intervention.

It reminded me another incident some years ago at the then-Point Depot. Nigel Kennedy was performing Elgar's Violin concerto to a packed venue. My jaw literally dropped when, during the exquisite and delicately-written slow movement, a section of the audience began to applaud! It is not unusual to hear applause between movements in a symphony or concerto, and this had already occurred after the first movement of the Elgar. What happened is that Kennedy had paused for a second during the gentle cadenza of the second movement and some people thought he was finished. Unlike Cassard, Kennedy did not falter and carried on, eyes closed and firmly in the 'zone'.

Now, these are perhaps extreme examples of bad audience behaviour but I think they reflect a general attitude which tends to discourage me from attending live performances in this country. However, I can't quite identify what the problem is. I am sure that most people at a classical concert are there because they love the music and are prepared to sit in rapt and silent concentration while the musicians perform. Yet there always seems to be a few who, one feels, are reluctant attendees, and whose boredom sooner or later gets the better of them. Or is it just that there is no strong culture of classical music appreciation in Ireland, as there is in other European countries?

I have attended concerts in a packed Albert Hall, capacity 8,000, where you could hear a pin drop during the quietest parts of a performance. I don't think I have ever had that experience in the much smaller NCH, or indeed at any other large Irish venue.

I would love to hear what others think.

Doshea3 · 17-12-2012 01:40PM

I'll never forget seeing Alfred Brendel in the NCH about 5 or 6 years ago and there were several people SNORING in the audience! I know our very own Banquo (not sure if he posts anymore) elbowed one of them who was sitting beside him.

I hate applause in general. Not in a snobby elitist way, I just think that constant intrusive applause is not appreciative and it ruins the atmosphere at many a concert or event. Why do people feel the necessity to applaud to break silence? A hearty applause at the end is fine: it also means so much more that way.

Fluorescence · 17-12-2012 10:44PM

I think a lot of Irish audiences aren't necessarily aware of concert etiquette - cough/sneeze during the breaks between movements, clap at the end, don't rustle around during the music, etc. It depends on what you're going to see as well. Something with more mainstream appeal will get more casual fans in who are less well-versed in such etiquette, whereas something that would attract a more niche audience will probably get a better behaved audience too.

Brinimartini · 17-12-2012 10:48PM

Fluorescence wrote: »

I think a lot of Irish audiences aren't necessarily aware of concert etiquette - cough/sneeze during the breaks between movements, clap at the end, don't rustle around during the music, etc. It depends on what you're going to see as well. Something with more mainstream appeal will get more casual fans in who are less well-versed in such etiquette, whereas something that would attract a more niche audience will probably get a better behaved audience too.

In all honesty we're just out of the cave in matters of civility, barely civilised by years of mimicking our british betters.If not for them gawd only knows we'd be plainly disgusting as a race.

purebeta · 17-12-2012 11:42PM

I'm sorry, what? Is oppression a form of civility?
As if we'd hardly be capable on our own or god forbid as being a state of europe.

Fluorescence · 17-12-2012 11:44PM

Brinimartini wrote: »

In all honesty we're just out of the cave in matters of civility, barely civilised by years of mimicking our british betters.If not for them gawd only knows we'd be plainly disgusting as a race.

purebeta wrote: »

I'm sorry, what? Is oppression a form of civility?
As if we'd hardly be capable on our own or god forbid as being a state of europe.

Take it to Politics/After Hours, please. This is not the forum for this type of discussion.

purebeta · 17-12-2012 11:49PM

Their post could be seen as mere provocation, I should not have replied.

If we had a Mahler things might have been different...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_etiquette#Western_Classical_music

Eliot Rosewater · 18-12-2012 12:04AM

The first time I was at the Proms in the Royal Albert Hall I clapped between one of the movements ... on my own. One of the most mortifying experiences of my life!

The lesson was well learned, and I like to think I'm now up to the etiquette standards expected by the OP.

I think Fluorescence is on the ball - particularly with how "mainstream audiences" can be unaware of what's expected. Earlier in the year I was at a performance of Mozart's Requiem in Cork City Hall. The Master of Ceremonies actually explicitly told the audience not to clap between the different parts and to keep noise to a minimum. This was respected ... by the adults. Unfortunately a number of people had brought young children under the age of 8 with them, who naturally got bored 10 minutes in.

Fluorescence · 18-12-2012 12:07AM

I heard a story once about András Schiff, who was doing a recital somewhere for the world's noisiest audience. Constant coughing, spluttering, murmuring etc. Stopped mid-way through a piece, told the audience to sort themselves out an refused to come back on stage until he had total silence.

Much respect to Mr Schiff

marienbad · 18-12-2012 12:49AM

We just don't have an understanding of concert and/or opera etiquette in sufficient numbers to enforce or educate those coming late to the party and at this stage I doubt that we ever will.

And theatre management are just as much to blame if not moreso than the audience. It you are late for a play or concert in most European venues ( even by a minute) then you just have to wait until the second act. Not so in Ireland - I happend to go to Aida in the Gaiety last month and it was comical for a finish . The opera started a few minutes late and even still people were left in thereafter, repeat the process after the interval when people trooped back in laden with drinks ! Just a joke.

Contrast that with Thomond Park where if you even whisper during a penalty or conversion and you will wither under the disapproving stares, and thus the proper tradition is passed on. Alas such methods are not allowed in 'polite' society. And so we suffer on .

And as we are in whinging mode - just a few more gripes , why are we always in a mad rush to applaud with invariably that guy that just has to show how well he knows the piece by bounding to his feet and giving thunderous claps before the conductor has even begun to lower his arms. And every so often getting it so wrong that we all cringe ( at least I do) in embarrassment.

Why does every single performance by every single performer have to get a standing ovation ? If everyone is outstanding then no one is outstanding.

And this new thing I notice with people reading their programmes by the light of their phone , this is becoming particularly prevalent at the few operas we get and is reaching plague proportions at the MET broadcasts.

Doshea3 · 18-12-2012 04:17PM

I remember a friend of mine giving a lunchtime piano recital once, and for some reason a schoolteacher brought along a gang of primary school kids, who applauded loudly during each one of the pieces of a large set he played. The poor guy was so unnerved, he found it really hard to concentrate.

SubBusted · 18-12-2012 04:26PM

There's no real class system in Ireland. Too much riff raff going to these concerts.

Randy Anders · 18-12-2012 04:39PM

SubBusted wrote: »

There's no real class system in Ireland. Too much riff raff going to these concerts.

I agree, only the wealthiest and better off folk in the country should be allowed attend these prestigious events

HeidiHeidi · 18-12-2012 05:28PM

Go easy on the cougher! I was that cougher, on more than one occasion - there's something about the air-conditioned air in the NCH and theatres that sets me off, and even bringing cough sweets and a bottle of water didn't prevent me being completely MORTIFIED on at least two occasions by fits of uncontrollable coughing. Both times I was in the middle of a long row of seats, and after long consideration, I had to conclude that it would cause even more disruption if I was to try to escape. I swear, if the ground could have swallowed me up whole...... Both times were the Messiah (lots of long, quiet bits just to exaggerate the effect) - I'm nearly afraid to go to it now. And I now always look for seats near the aisle

So I have a certain amount of sympathy for coughers. But clapping between movements of a symphony/concerto/whatever drives me NUTS. Unreasonably so, I'm bound to admit.

And I also wonder about the standing ovation for absolutely everyone. How do you then express your appreciation for a really properly outstanding performance?

Sanguine Fan · 18-12-2012 06:02PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Go easy on the cougher! I was that cougher, on more than one occasion - there's something about the air-conditioned air in the NCH and theatres that sets me off, and even bringing cough sweets and a bottle of water didn't prevent me being completely MORTIFIED on at least two occasions by fits of uncontrollable coughing.

Even though I raised the issue I do sympathise. I recall some years ago having to run down Leeson Street to the NCH in order not to miss the start of a piano recital. I made it just in time and found my seat in the second row. I tried to control my audible panting but that only brought on a fit of coughing, which I then tried to suppress. I was seated quite near the pianist and I had to endure about 30 minutes of agony until my breathing returned to normal.

In your case, I wonder if a word with the NCH management might not be useful in at least helping you determine if the problem lies with the airconditioning or not. That said, the incident I described in my original post suggests that some coughers can turn it off pretty quickly if they have to. So for those discretionary coughers, loud snorers, and over-enthusiastic applauders, perhaps venues could include guidelines on audience etiquette in their programmes. Something along the lines of the Wikipedia article cited by purebeta could be useful if presented in a slightly more humorous or ironic tone. :cool:

Brinimartini · 19-12-2012 07:56PM

Fluorescence wrote: »

Take it to Politics/After Hours, please. This is not the forum for this type of discussion.

Yes it is because I'm still talking about manners and civility not politics.

Fluorescence · 19-12-2012 10:59PM

Brinimartini wrote: »

Yes it is because I'm still talking about manners and civility not politics.

If you've a problem with a post or wish to dispute a mod decision, please PM or report rather than drag the thread off-topic. Cheers.

The Mad Hatter · 19-12-2012 11:32PM

This thread is about etiquette in Irish concert venues. Broader discussion/trolling about Irish civility can be had elsewhere.

mambo · 20-12-2012 04:27PM

This is how heldentenor Jon Vickers once responded to a persistant cougher (with audio):
http://www.josephshore.com/shut_up_with_your_damn_coughing.htm

purebeta · 20-12-2012 10:53PM

Tony will sort them out:

Clinker · 23-12-2012 11:09AM

What really annoys me in the NCH is talking during the music. It happens during nearly every concert I go to. I usually sit in the main balcony and I noticed recently when I was given a ticket for a seat near the front of the stalls that the audience were much quieter: maybe their proximity to the orchestra put manners on them!

Texting, mobile phones ringing, noisy programme page turning, rooting in handbags... they're bad, but the talking is the worst!

Antar Bolaeisk · 24-12-2012 05:45PM

It's just down to people in general not knowing how to behave (or being completely inconsiderate and ignorant).

The most recent concert I was at was the Two Towers performance (live orchestra playing to the film) at which nearly half the audience got up to leave as soon as the credits started rolling. In this case it can be put firmly down to the venue and the type of audience attracted to such a performance (without wanting to sound snobbish of course), they just quite simply didn't know how to behave though there was a reasonable expectation that they should have realised their arse was to remain firmly on seat while the music was still going. I was with two Germans that night and they were absolutely shocked at the behaviour. Certainly I don't recall such problems at the Grand Canal Theatre the year before.

The other one I can think of would be Ludovico Einaudi's performance at the NCH where people, as mentioned above, were in a rush to start applauding. That I don't really get either

Sadly I don't get more exposure as I live in the Nort-West where there's generally nothing much happening and travel times make venturing out that much more difficult but just because someone is from the country doesn't mean they don't know how to behave.

dlouth15 · 25-12-2012 10:15AM

I wonder what people think of this extract from one of Mozart's letters about his 31st symphony:

Mozart wrote:

Right in the middle of the First Allegro came a Passage I knew would please, and the entire audience was sent into raptures — there was a big applaudißement; — and as I knew, when I wrote the passage, what good effect it would make, I brought it once more at the end of the movement — and sure enough there they were: the shouts of Da capo. The Andante was well received as well, but the final Allegro pleased especially — because I had heard that here the final Allegros begin like the first Allegros, namely with all instruments playing and mostly unisono; therefore, I began the movement with just 2 violins playing softly for 8 bars — then suddenly comes a forte — but the audience had, because of the quiet beginning, shushed each other, as I expected they would, and then came the forte — well, hearing it and clapping was one and the same. I was so delighted, I went right after the Sinfonie to the Palais Royale — bought myself an ice cream, prayed a rosary as I had pledged — and went home.

(From Alex Ross's blog here).

IceFjoem · 25-12-2012 01:51PM

dlouth15 wrote: »

Right in the middle of the First Allegro came a Passage I knew would please, and the entire audience was sent into raptures — there was a big applaudißement; — and as I knew, when I wrote the passage, what good effect it would make, I brought it once more at the end of the movement — and sure enough there they were: the shouts of Da capo. The Andante was well received as well, but the final Allegro pleased especially — because I had heard that here the final Allegros begin like the first Allegros, namely with all instruments playing and mostly unisono; therefore, I began the movement with just 2 violins playing softly for 8 bars — then suddenly comes a forte — but the audience had, because of the quiet beginning, shushed each other, as I expected they would, and then came the forte — well, hearing it and clapping was one and the same. I was so delighted, I went right after the Sinfonie to the Palais Royale — bought myself an ice cream, prayed a rosary as I had pledged — and went home.

I began to read that in Alex's voice from A Clockwork Orange.

The worst concert etiquette I've ever seen was at a performance of Schumann's Dichterliebe. A young woman sitting right at the front (who I suspected was not a regular concert goer), had her video camera out and was kneeling on the seat, leaning as far forward as she could, getting the camera within inches of the singer's face, and leaning around him to get shots of the pianist. It went on for the whole song cycle! I was in the balcony, but I'd love to have seen someone tell her off!

COYW · 25-01-2013 02:55PM

I went to see Nicola Benedetti last night and the audience was well behaved for the most part. However, three people about 2 rows in front of us kept chatting during the first part of the performance and even switched seats at one point. I think someone may have said something to them during the interval, as they behaved perfectly well after that.

Brilliant performance by Nicola and RTE concert orchestra for the record!

SubBusted · 26-01-2013 01:24PM

The solution is simple. Get those guys who do the security on the Luas to work in the NCH and those bad-mannered people will quickly behave.

Sinfonia · 26-01-2013 09:03PM

dlouth15 wrote: »

I wonder what people think of this extract from one of Mozart's letters about his 31st symphony:

(From Alex Ross's blog here).

That's because the idea of any disturbance to the silence being poor etiquette didn't really come to be until much later.

During opera performances it was perfectly normal for people to come and go, essentially head out to the bar for a drink and a chat, and rush back in to hear their favourite aria.

dlouth15 · 27-01-2013 10:35AM

Sinfonia wrote: »

That's because the idea of any disturbance to the silence being poor etiquette didn't really come to be until much later.

Obviously the convention has changed since then. What I wanted to know was what people thought of the fact that people used to respond during symphonies and that Mozart liked it.

Joe10000 · 27-01-2013 10:49AM

mambo wrote: »

This is how heldentenor Jon Vickers once responded to a persistant cougher (with audio):
http://www.josephshore.com/shut_up_with_your_damn_coughing.htm

Shut Up With Your Damn Coughing

In a performance of Tristan und Isolde in Dallas, Jon Vickers, while playing the part of Tristan, felt it necessary to break his character and shout to the audience, “Shut up with your damn coughing,” like a headmaster scolding naughty little boys. It didn’t work. The audience kept on coughing.

Anyone who has ever attended an opera or virtually any classical music venue will testify to the fact that a suspicious outbreak of coughing occurs like magic as soon as the lights go down. If we take an audience of 3,000 and extract from them---forcibly if but we could—all the ones with viral illnesses, asthma, allergies, and smoker’s cough, we would be left with a sizable chunk of audience who would then---trust me—still cough just as regularly. They do not cough so much when they go to any sports event. No baseball game or hockey rink can match an opera audience cough for cough. Furthermore, it is fair to observe that the risk of coughing outbreak varies with the familiarity of the music. So what is really going on? And are performers justly annoyed by coughing attacks? I’ll answer the easy question first. Of course performers are justly annoyed. Now for the hard question.

The modern day opera cough seems to be the exact opposite of the Italian opera audience familiar with the art form. In some provincial opera houses in Italy, an opera takes on an atmosphere close to audience participation, complete with loud comments from the audience, and the proverbial tomato at the soprano. Italians invented opera. They love it and are very familiar with it as part of their culture. If your Dad were also the President, he would still be your Dad. His office wouldn’t keep you from giving him a hard time. You might even have more fun tackling him in a family football game. That’s the way the Italians treat opera, with great respect but with great familiarity. We call that “love.” But most North Americans don’t “love” opera or great classical music. Instead of evoking “love,” classical music evokes feelings of personal inadequacy, insecurity and fear of discovery. North Americans are afraid they will be “found out” and discovered to be stupid. It is an unnecessary fear for we are all ignorant of something! As soon as the music starts, people experience a challenge to their self-images. It is not comfortable. They don’t like the feeling. The need to cough comes through the reflexes from this psychological uncomfortability. Partly an attention getting device, it says, “I am still here and I am important even though this music makes me feel stupid and small.” That is why handing out cough drops to the audience before the show will not work, and also why Jon Vickers’ scolding did not stop even one cough during his “Dristan” and Isolde.

I stumbled on this curious effect during a performance I gave for a small college. I gave what I thought was a usual type voice recital for a college or university but what I received from the audience was anything but “usual.” As soon as I started to sing, students began throwing things at one another, whistling, cat-calling. It looked sort of like the food fight scene in Animal House! I valiantly went on and sang as though nothing were happening. When, mercifully, the concert was over, the music faculty met me back stage and offered words of congratulations along with these remarks: “I thought the students did very well today. Usually they are much worse than this! You see, most of these kids come from low-income families where there was no exposure to culture, so when they experience it they don’t know how to act.”

The problem with opera “as entertainment”—which is how Opera America has tried to buy the opera audience—is that opera is not at all entertaining to people who do not “love” it as the Italians do. If we wish to see opera survive into the next century we will have to kindly, gently and lovingly educate an audience. Telling them to “Shut up their damn coughing” will do no good. We all know how difficult the education process is from our experience in other areas. It is not easy and it is not quick. Perhaps we should make a start of it if we have any hopes of curing the coughs.

Brinimartini · 29-01-2013 06:31PM

dlouth15 wrote: »

I wonder what people think of this extract from one of Mozart's letters about his 31st symphony:

(From Alex Ross's blog here).

So he prayed a rosary....was he a Catholic?

shoegirl · 13-02-2013 11:19PM

Randy Anders wrote: »

I agree, only the wealthiest and better off folk in the country should be allowed attend these prestigious events

Ticket prices go the highest for the lowest brow concerts here. That said, I don't think audiences are as rude as they are in Paris or Milan, booing etc. you just get a polite clap here. Best audiences I've seen are in the wigmore hall in London.

Problem here isn't rude audiences, it's the lack of audiences that is more of the problem. There is little effort to discount tickets for slow sellers so often halls ar less than half full.

Clinker · 15-02-2013 08:51AM

Yes, audiences for the NSO at the NCH had been declining alarmingly last season and the first half of this season the NCH was generally only half-full. Lately for some reason they've been much better attended.

Talking during music continues, but no clapping between movements. But oddly, this season there is often a (weak) round of applause as the orchestra comes on.

Dirigent · 15-02-2013 09:50AM

I don't really mind if people applaud between movements, I don't have an issue with that. If people want to show their appreciation, so be it.

However, what I do have a big issue with are those idiots who have to start shouting "Bravo!" immediately after the orchestra finishes playing, before the conductor drops his hands, particularly in something like Tchaikovsky's Pathetique. To me, listening to those last few notes fade away into complete silence is one of the great joys of attending a live orchestral performance.

mambo · 15-02-2013 10:29AM

Dirigent wrote: »

I don't really mind if people applaud between movements, I don't have an issue with that. If people want to show their appreciation, so be it.

However, what I do have a big issue with are those idiots who have to start shouting "Bravo!" immediately after the orchestra finishes playing, before the conductor drops his hands, particularly in something like Tchaikovsky's Pathetique. To me, listening to those last few notes fade away into complete silence is one of the great joys of attending a live orchestral performance.

Agreed. They are plonkers who love the sound of their own voice more than the music.

IceFjoem · 15-02-2013 01:49PM

I was at the Horizons concert there on Tuesday afternoon in the NCH. The program consisted of works by Irish composer Ann Cleare as well as the Greek composer Iannis Xenakis. Anyway, some fool brought an infant baby with them to the concert, I couldn't believe it. Now to be fair the baby was amazingly well behaved considering the loud volumes of the orchestra, but still there were outbursts from the baby every couple of minutes.

The concert was likely being recorded so I'm sure Ann was raging, I know i would have been. I almost felt like giving out to them afterwards. Talk about inappropriate events to bring a baby!

COYW · 15-02-2013 07:24PM

Clinker wrote: »

Yes, audiences for the NSO at the NCH had been declining alarmingly last season and the first half of this season the NCH was generally only half-full. Lately for some reason they've been much better attended.

I have only been to the NCH once this year and that was a sell out. We did well to get tickets from returns.

Clinker · 16-02-2013 11:23AM

COYW wrote: »

I have only been to the NCH once this year and that was a sell out. We did well to get tickets from returns.

As I say, the last few NSO concerts have been better attended, but I can't think of one that could have been a sell-out (but maybe I missed it, I don't go to all of them!), unless it was the Mahler last week: that did seem full. Last night was well-attended but not sold out, there were a good few empty seats towards the back of the main balcony, I'm not sure about the stalls.

In the autumn and last year most of the NSO Concerts weren't half-full.

IceFjoem · 16-02-2013 01:28PM

Clinker wrote: »

As I say, the last few NSO concerts have been better attended, but I can't think of one that could have been a sell-out (but maybe I missed it, I don't go to all of them!), unless it was the Mahler last week: that did seem full. Last night was well-attended but not sold out, there were a good few empty seats towards the back of the main balcony, I'm not sure about the stalls.

In the autumn and last year most of the NSO Concerts weren't half-full.

I think Beethoven 9 was completely sold out about 3 weeks ago. But, well, you know, it's Beethoven 9.

Clinker · 16-02-2013 02:21PM

IceFjoem wrote: »

I think Beethoven 9 was completely sold out about 3 weeks ago. But, well, you know, it's Beethoven 9.

What's happened to my memory? I was at that, and yes, I can believe it was sold out. But it's more likely with a choral work: the choir seats are gone and the choir's friends and relations all want to come (especially if it's Beethoven's Ninth!).

Dirigent · 16-02-2013 03:05PM

Anyone else experiencing a problem with the NCH website? I go into "What's On", select a month and it just sits there. Firefox & IE.

IceFjoem · 16-02-2013 03:16PM

Dirigent wrote: »

Anyone else experiencing a problem with the NCH website? I go into "What's On", select a month and it just sits there. Firefox & IE.

Working fine for me anyway...try deleting your system files. :pac:

Sanguine Fan · 20-06-2014 01:02PM

I thought it timely to revive this thread in light of an astonishing article in today's online edition of the Irish Independent:
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/leading-scientist-ejected-by-audience-after-trying-to-crowd-surf-at-classical-music-concert-30371249.html

The gist of the article is that a member of the audience at a performance of Handel's Messiah in Bristol was forcibly ejected when he tried to crowd-surf. Apparently the organiser of the concert, Tom Morris, had encouraged the audience to “Clap or whoop when you like, and no shushing other people.” However, some of the audience felt that this particular individual was going too far and threw him out.

Mr. Morris was quoted as saying: “The Bristol Proms are contributing to a ground-breaking way of thinking which will pave the way for a new kind of classical concert. But by allowing an audience to respond in whatever way they want, you also allow an audience to self-regulate, as we discovered.”

If this is the future of live classical music - and I pray it is not - perhaps we will look back on the era of paper-rustling and coughing as a golden age of concert-going!

evolving_doors · 22-06-2014 10:57PM

Sanguine Fan wrote: »

I thought it timely to revive this thread in light of an astonishing article in today's online edition of the Irish Independent:
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/leading-scientist-ejected-by-audience-after-trying-to-crowd-surf-at-classical-music-concert-30371249.html

The gist of the article is that a member of the audience at a performance of Handel's Messiah in Bristol was forcibly ejected when he tried to crowd-surf. Apparently the organiser of the concert, Tom Morris, had encouraged the audience to “Clap or whoop when you like, and no shushing other people.” However, some of the audience felt that this particular individual was going too far and threw him out.

Mr. Morris was quoted as saying: “The Bristol Proms are contributing to a ground-breaking way of thinking which will pave the way for a new kind of classical concert. But by allowing an audience to respond in whatever way they want, you also allow an audience to self-regulate, as we discovered.”

If this is the future of live classical music - and I pray it is not - perhaps we will look back on the era of paper-rustling and coughing as a golden age of concert-going!

Grand finale with crowd surfing by the performer himself (at about 3:30)...

Once everyone is a consentin adult and all that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIG9bCqTDY4

Sanguine Fan · 23-06-2014 08:46AM

Armelodie wrote: »

Grand finale with crowd surfing by the performer himself (at about 3:30)...

Once everyone is a consentin adult and all that.

Thanks for that. I have been warned!

Ralf and Florian · 23-06-2014 06:51PM

SubBusted wrote: »

There's no real class system in Ireland. Too much riff raff going to these concerts.

Only someone with no class would express an opinion like that.

dlouth15 · 30-06-2014 06:22PM

I have a bit of a problem with what might be called "concert etiquette". Not so much the rules themselves but rather that when there's an emphasis on rules and etiquette, common sense can go out the window.

For example the convention against applause between movements means that people must be silent throughout an entire work when in reality it is entirely natural to applaud when a movement ends. I believe the only reason there's no applause is because no one else is doing it. No one likes to look like a fool and therefore we all go along with it. But if it was the convention to applaud, we'd probably be quite happy with that too.

What is interesting, though, is that it seems to be a comparatively recent convention. It didn't exist in Mozart or Beethoven's time and applause between movements probably continued long into the "Romantic" era and into the 20th century in some places. Alex Ross, whom I've quoted earlier in this thread, thinks that in many places it continued into the 50s. He also noted that coughing became a sort of substitute for applause and that it would appear in concerts about the same time you would have had applause in Mozart's day. Mozart also wrote with approval about audience response during music he was conducting.

Possibly the reason you get a rush to applaud even before the conductor has lowered his hands (which can indeed be annoying) is because the audience have been forced to sit in an unnatural silence for the duration which can be over an hour in many cases. I think as well that applause gives the audience an opportunity to cough in an unselfconscious way, thereby not being forced to cough during the music.

I appreciate that some people may like the church- or museum-like atmosphere in the modern classical concert, and some may like the feeling of superiority that they know the various rules of etiquette, but I do think that some of these conventions, though well intentioned, work against enjoyment of the music itself.

evolving_doors · 01-07-2014 11:38PM

Resist that urge to applaud before it finishes folks , its just someone showing-off that only they appreciate it more than you. They are so overtly enthusiastic and 'au fait' that they just simply must get in there before anyone else... It's like a comedy gig I went to where some idiot in the crowd couldn't contain themselves and had to mimic all the gags of the comedian ...even the punchlines. They were mimicking because obviously they were more of a fan than anyone else and boy did they let us know it.

As regards clapping between movements.... Personally I wouldn't because it's annoying and just not done.. so don;t do it. Most symphonic works the mvts. are about balance and contrast. To treat them as individual parcels disrupts the contrast. The same way you wouldn't clap between a theme and variations. Incidentally I was at a concert a few years ago whereby the audience (who were unaware as to what Theme and Variations meant) clapped mistakenly at the end of an admittedly very long theme. It completely ruined it for the performer/performance I think.. It was like someone clapping after the introduction to a speech as if everything had been said!

Premature ovation is just rude

banquo · 05-07-2014 06:08AM

Doshea3 wrote: »

I'll never forget seeing Alfred Brendel in the NCH about 5 or 6 years ago and there were several people SNORING in the audience! I know our very own Banquo (not sure if he posts anymore) elbowed one of them who was sitting beside him.

Damn right.

dlouth15 · 09-11-2014 11:52AM

Armelodie wrote: »

As regards clapping between movements.... Personally I wouldn't because it's annoying and just not done.. so don;t do it.

It is an interesting point, but I was at a concert in London recently and I noticed that between the movements of the two symphonies being played there was polite applause. This was a mid-week concert so likely had an audience interested in the music rather than merely a night out at a posh event.

Personally I didn't find it annoying. The silence+coughing that you get here seems very unnatural.

Seanf999 · 30-11-2014 02:18AM

Being 17 I probably have a different experience than the majority of other posters on this particular trend but regardless,
I was at a school event where NSO played for Primary school children (I myself was one at the time this event took place) but I remember it being completely silent at times. I mean a concert hall full of kids between the ages of 10-13 and it was quiet!
Of course there were times between pieces where you could here some child ask to use the bathroom or a teacher explaining what instruments were playing but other then that the majority of the hall (or at least those within my earshot were quiet!)
I remember being allowed to tap away on the steinway piano after the performance because my teacher pulled a few strings

Are Irish classical music audiences badly behaved?

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