mandatory ID cards:

godwin · 23-04-2013 04:48PM

Nope , after living in a few countries where they were mandatory , it's actually very liberating not having to carry one at all times

23-04-2013 04:50PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

godwin wrote: »

Nope , after living in a few countries where they were mandatory , it's actually very liberating not having to carry one at all times

Liberating not to have an id in your pocket, what utter nonsense. I wouldn't leave the house without id and usually have two. You never know when its handy to have it.

Having a standard easy to carry id would make sense to me.

godwin · 23-04-2013 04:54PM

Jolene Uninterested Moon wrote: »

I wouldn't leave the house without id and usually have two.

Jolene Uninterested Moon wrote: »

what utter nonsense.

Friggen try hards.

BOHtox · 23-04-2013 04:54PM

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/44776_467718213296977_1207762775_n.jpg

23-04-2013 05:02PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

godwin wrote: »

Friggen try hards.

How is it any effort at all to have my driving licence and student ID in my wallet at all times. Actually removing them and putting them back would be a lot more effort.

humbert · 23-04-2013 05:06PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

c_man wrote: »

So the scheme would provide no new information, and its chief raison d'etre is that you can arrest someone for breaking the law around it.

Yes, go on and tell me how objections to this are stupid.

I didn't say objections to it were stupid. I said your objections to it were stupid.

I also said it provides the government with no new information (they have your name), it however would make verifying someone's ID much easier and more reliable. No new information != no practical value.

You'll have to elaborate on what you mean when you say its chief raison d'etre is that you can arrest someone for breaking the law around it.

godwin · 23-04-2013 05:12PM

Jolene Uninterested Moon wrote: »

How is it any effort at all to have my driving licence and student ID in my wallet at all times. Actually removing them and putting them back would be a lot more effort.

The therm "try hard" is not related to physical effort , lol what a noob.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=try-hard

SparkySpitfire · 23-04-2013 05:19PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

I didn't read the thread, so apologies if this has been said before...

The question is utterly biased, how can you expect intelligent and insightful debate to blossom from this? "Normal countries"? :rolleyes:

Also you ask those who disagree with you to justify themselves but not the people who agree with you.

This makes it difficult for me to believe that you actually want to inspire a good discussion rather than just saying "This is what I think, tell me otherwise so I can shoot you down".

RustyNut · 23-04-2013 05:34PM

humbert wrote: »

No no, you're still a witness, but one who has broken the law.

Like when you're driving your car but realise upon seeing a checkpoint that you've forgotten your licence. Though perhaps because most people are trustworthy or because you're a free citizen or because the use driving licences in Egypt you feel we should also get rid of those.

When I drive I accept that driving is a privilege that I choose to do and so I accept the need for driving licence, motor tax, etc.

And what if I just don't want to be a witness to whatever i might or might not have seen and would prefere to keep my identity to myself ?

humbert · 23-04-2013 05:38PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

RustyNut wrote: »

When I drive I accept that driving is a privilege that I choose to do and so I accept the need for driving licence, motor tax, etc.

And what if I just don't want to be a witness to whatever i might or might not have seen and would prefere to keep my identity to myself ?

You don't have that right as it stands. You can be compelled to give evidence. Which I also approve of.

c_man · 23-04-2013 05:52PM

humbert wrote: »

I didn't say objections to it were stupid. I said your objections to it were stupid.

Yeah, it was a great debate. I haven't seen such handwaving since the royal wedding two years ago.

Of course it provides new information, it' be pointless if it didn't.

You'll have to elaborate on what you mean when you say its chief raison d'etre is that you can arrest someone for breaking the law around it.

Making it mandatory and standardised makes it difficult for people to abuse

I'm still not seeing a good reason for this (even leaving aside the nightmare of implementation) bar it being handy (for some people, who already carry ID) and replicating the function of a passport within an EU context. Not really good enough tbh.

What sentences do the pro crowd reckon should be imposed for not carrying any?

Herb Powell · 23-04-2013 06:03PM

Chemical Burn wrote: »

I believe in the (I know it's clichéed), expression, "If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear". ?

You keep saying this. But it is a short-sighted, bullshiit expression.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 23-04-2013 06:10PM

Jolene Uninterested Moon wrote: »

Liberating not to have an id in your pocket, what utter nonsense.

Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it nonsense. Maybe someone doesn't want the legal obligation to carry something around. Maybe I want to stroll down to the beach in an outfit that doesn't have pockets, and go for a swim. Or leave my other clothes on the beach without worrying about some piece of shit stealing my ID card.
It seems minor and petty, but it's the principle involved. It's a right being taken away, and you're no longer free to walk around without it.

Jolene Uninterested Moon wrote: »

I wouldn't leave the house without id and usually have two.

Good for you. I usually wear shoes with laces, so I'd have no problem with a law requiring everyone to wear shoes with laces, or face having a fixed amount of their property seized.

humbert · 23-04-2013 06:13PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

c_man wrote: »

Of course it provides new information, it' be pointless if it didn't.

What new information will it provide?

nomdeboardie · 23-04-2013 09:39PM

You want to go for a run on a hot day in shorts and have to make sure they have a pocket. OK, you might usually want to bring a key, but that’s easier stashed.

You forget your key and it’s unfortunate, you forget your ID and you’re breaking the law.

23-04-2013 10:08PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

As if it would be that strict, chances are you won't be asked for it unless you are up to something.

I'm also not saying it should definitely be introduced but a proper ID card would be handy for reasons outlined in the thread.

What I don't understand is why people feel the need to act the b*llocks when asked simple thing like there name, where they are going or asked for some form of id from a guard etc.

nomdeboardie · 23-04-2013 10:22PM

Jolene Uninterested Moon wrote: »

As if it would be that strict, chances are you won't be asked for it unless you are up to something.

The possibility of being asked for it as a witness was raised.

23-04-2013 10:39PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

nomdeboardie wrote: »

The possibility of being asked for it as a witness was raised.

I never heard any of my friends from countries with ID cards living here declare how fantastic it is not having to carry it so it mustn't really be that much of an issue for them.

humbert · 23-04-2013 10:54PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

nomdeboardie wrote: »

The possibility of being asked for it as a witness was raised.

And that would certainly be you in Mountjoy for the rest of your living days.

Or perhaps the Garda could exercise discretion and decide to allow you to come to the station later (like with driving licences) or accompany you home so you could provide it if the situation warranted.

Mandatory means "I don't have it with me", isn't an excuse. It doesn't mean being executed on the spot for not having it.

nomdeboardie · 23-04-2013 11:02PM

humbert wrote: »

And that would certainly be you in Mountjoy for the rest of your living days.

Or perhaps the Garda could exercise discretion and decide to allow you to come to the station later (like with driving licences) or accompany you home so you could provide it if the situation warranted.

Mandatory means "I don't have it with me", isn't an excuse. It doesn't mean being executed on the spot for not having it.

Phew

Eh...yeh
I think the idea was that a person could be fined for not having the card on them (even if it they could produced it later), and I don't like the possibility of being fined for the misdemeanour of neglecting to remember to keep myself constantly identifiable-on-the-spot

Zebra3 · 23-04-2013 11:19PM

WayneMolloy wrote: »

There are nearly 1, 000, 000 million illegals residing in the British/Celtic Isles - http://www.workpermit.com/news/2013-01-11/study-says-almost-a-million-illegal-immigrants-living-in-the-uk

A billion, yeah? :pac:

Herb Powell · 23-04-2013 11:24PM

Jolene Uninterested Moon wrote: »

As if it would be that strict, chances are you won't be asked for it unless you are up to something.

I'm also not saying it should definitely be introduced but a proper ID card would be handy for reasons outlined in the thread.

What I don't understand is why people feel the need to act the b*llocks when asked simple thing like there name, where they are going or asked for some form of id from a guard etc.

What I don't understand is why the Gardaí need to ask me that if I'm out trying to mind my own business

nomdeboardie · 23-04-2013 11:26PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

A billion, yeah? :pac:

A 'long scale' billion, no less! :eek:

humbert · 23-04-2013 11:28PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Phew
Eh...yeh
I think the idea was that a person could be fined for not having the card on them (even if it they could produced it later), and I don't like the possibility of being fined for the misdemeanour of neglecting to remember to keep myself constantly identifiable-on-the-spot

I really wouldn't expect it to be implemented anything like that. Making it mandatory just would give the gardai some recourse if a person was being stubborn about producing it. It would only make sense to have provisions for situations where a person couldn't reasonably be expected to carry it with them. At the beach, or as you say at some sporting event.

People seem to be intent on finding reasons to justify their views on this subject rather than first asking themselves whether their views are reasonable.

The only sensible counterargument I've read is that there is no need, and that is debatable.

Feathers · 23-04-2013 11:32PM

humbert wrote: »

I really wouldn't expect it to be implemented anything like that.

...

It would only make sense to have provisions for situations where a person couldn't reasonably be expected to carry it with them.

So since you're all in favour of them as other countries have them, have you looked into their systems at all to see if they do have these provisions?

23-04-2013 11:35PM

No. If no, justify your answer.

Herb Powell wrote: »

What I don't understand is why the Gardaí need to ask me that if I'm out trying to mind my own business

They rarely if ever do but they may ask you if you witnessed something etc and may ask your name in a situation like that.

You are often asked you name when driving, again a totally reasonable thing in my eyes but some people would nearly rather to get arrested than give anything away.

What's wrong woth giving your name if you have nothing to hide?

humbert · 24-04-2013 12:19AM

No. If no, justify your answer.

Feathers wrote: »

So since you're all in favour of them as other countries have them, have you looked into their systems at all to see if they do have these provisions?

I've lived in one of them and wasn't fined imprisoned or executed. After reading this thread I count myself lucky.

Feathers · 24-04-2013 07:44AM

humbert wrote: »

I've lived in one of them and wasn't fined imprisoned or executed. After reading this thread I count myself lucky.

That'd be a no, then? Seems strange to be pushing for a system to be introduced that you don't fully understand the ins and outs of.

Valetta · 24-04-2013 08:27AM

No. If no, justify your answer.

Herb Powell wrote: »

What I don't understand is why the Gardaí need to ask me that if I'm out trying to mind my own business

How are the Gardai supposed to know that you are minding your own business ant not about to commit a crime?

Say you fit the discription of a known criminal that they are looking for.

Which would you prefer:
a) Identify yourself as a law abiding citizen with a recognised form of identification and be on your way in moments.

b) Be taken down to the station on suspicion of being someone else and held until the guards are satisfied that you are who you say you are.

I think national ID cards are a great idea, but then I'm just a reasonable law abiding person and not paranoid.

who the fug · 24-04-2013 08:47AM

Valetta wrote: »

How are the Gardai supposed to know that you are minding your own business ant not about to commit a crime?

Say you fit the discription of a known criminal that they are looking for.

Which would you prefer:
a) Identify yourself as a law abiding citizen with a recognised form of identification and be on your way in moments.

b) Be taken down to the station on suspicion of being someone else and held until the guards are satisfied that you are who you say you are.

I think national ID cards are a great idea, but then I'm just a reasonable law abiding person and not paranoid.

In the unlikely event of your scenario all I have to do is jump in the squad car , go home and produce passport (if I am not carrying my driving license) , no need for more laws, which our criminal brethren will drive a coach and horse through assisted by the legal profession , whilst both laugh all the way to the bank

mandatory ID cards:

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