Dell Laptop - "catastrophic failure" in less than 3 years - Lost a customer for life

vicwatson · 14-05-2013 10:29PM #1

Laptop was 34 months young

Very little use (and I mean very little)

Wouldn't switch on one day, took it to an engineer, said the Motherboard was goosed

Is a Dell only built to last under 3 years ?

How can a Motherboard just kaput in such a short time

Dell told me to take a hike it's outta warranty (then they offered to repair it for a cost of €250.00 :eek:)

National Consumers Assoc said I can claim up to 6 years

Surely a Dell Laptop should last a "reasonable" amount of time and that "reasonable" time is more than 3 years ??????

Was thinking of taking a small claims action as I think a "reasonable" time is more than 3 years on such an integral part of the laptop plus the fact it has flip all miles on it

Any advice appreciated

unkel · 14-05-2013 10:33PM

vicwatson wrote: »

National Consumers Assoc said I can claim up to 6 years

Any link? The useful life of a laptop is nowhere near 6 years imho

I have a feeling that your claim would not be entertained in the small claims court. Maybe just out of warranty after 1 or even 2 years, but not 3. I could be wrong though

Have an expensive Sony Vaio here BTW. About 4 months old and motherboard completely screwed. It's obviously under warranty still...

LowKeyReturn · 14-05-2013 10:50PM

You can claim for up to six years but that doesn't mean the claim will be successful. The two year 'European law warranty' is also a complete myth.

All that said you can expect something to last a reasonable amount of time. Three years of light use is not reasonable. Contact Dell and ask for their legal department postal address as 'that's where I need to send the small claims court paper work to'. See if that gets you anywhere - if it does not submit a small claims court claim.

DanWall · 14-05-2013 10:58PM

A lot of people use a laptop in a way that does not let the air circulate, ie. use it on material such as cloth which does not give it any space underneath, this causes overheating and failure, you cannot blame the maker for that.

wmpdd3 · 14-05-2013 10:58PM

Just to add, deal with the retailer, I presume you bought direct from Dell, if so proceed as above.

drumswan · 14-05-2013 11:10PM

Sometimes consumer electronics fail. You could have extended the warranty if you so wished. No manufacturer offers a 3 year warranty as standard AFAIK.

LowKeyReturn · 14-05-2013 11:13PM

drumswan wrote: »

Sometimes consumer electronics fail. You could have extended the warranty if you so wished. No manufacturer offers a 3 year warranty as standard AFAIK.

Warranty and consumer rights to reasonable durability are two different things. That's why you should always deal with the vendor in the first instance, as they are bound by the regulated contract and never, ever, ever buy extended warranties.

drumswan · 14-05-2013 11:17PM

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Warranty and consumer rights to reasonable durability are two different things. That's why you should always deal with the vendor in the first instance, as they are bound by the regulated contract and never, ever, ever buy extended warranties.

Every IT department in the world deals with extended warranty as part of support contracts with vendors. Its ridiculous to expect the likes of Dell to have to replace failed parts two years outside warranty. As someone else said, the failure could well be the rest of environmental factors.

LowKeyReturn · 14-05-2013 11:19PM

drumswan wrote: »

Every IT department in the world deals with extended warranty as part of support contracts with vendors. Its ridiculous to expect the likes of Dell to have to replace failed parts two years outside warranty. As someone else said, the failure could well be the rest of environmental factors.

They are dealing in the course of a business and can't avail of the extra protections given consumers. Hence why they pay less for products.

While it may be an environmental factor that's is for Dell to prove to 51% or above probability.

drumswan · 14-05-2013 11:25PM

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

While it may be an environmental factor that's is for Dell to prove to 51% or above probability.

Have you a source for this? I worked for a consumer hardware vendor, we didnt replace hardware outside warranty, end of story. All manufacturers are the same, so not sure where the OP is going to take his custom next.

Bad news, Dell are actually pretty reliable. Maybe splash out on a mac.

http://www.zdnet.com/want-the-most-reliable-windows-pc-buy-a-mac-or-maybe-a-dell-7000014469/

LowKeyReturn · 14-05-2013 11:31PM

Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 See (generally but also) sections 3, 10 and 21

Statute of Limitations Act 1957 this has been amended but not in relation to consumer contracts. (see section 11)

European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003 See generally (very short)

NB this is consumer legislation only - it does not apply (generally) to businesses.

These are the most pertinent pieces of legislation. England and Wales is looking to re-codify and consolidate their mess we can only hope the same is done here.

Ultimately the decision will be made by the SmCC registrar and each case will be different. However anecdotal evidence suggests they normally allow claims with five years unless the item was a particularly cheap one.

Apple are one of the worst companies to deal with when it comes to getting consumer rights.

TroutMask · 14-05-2013 11:33PM

Dells are pretty horrible - QC can be abysmal and they often try to avoid warranty commitments. We had many of their 'workstations' - supposedly 'high-end' pcs: the performance was mediocre and quite a few of them failed. Never again!

Alan_P · 15-05-2013 08:26AM

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Utimately the decision will be made by the SmCC registrar and each case will be different. However anecdotal evidence suggests they normally allow claims with five years unless the item was a particularly cheap one.

I had a laptop fail after 2 years, and took it to the SCC. It was clear from my case, and other cases I listened to that day, that the minimum acceptable life span the judge expected for consumer electronics, including laptops, was 5 years. Warranties were completely irrelevant :- to quote the judge in my case :- "I don't recognise the word warranty and the concept doesn't exist in my courtroom".

I was awarded 3/5th of the purchase price, on the basis I'd had the use of the machine for 2 of the required 5 years.

superb choice of username · 15-05-2013 08:52AM

"Causes of a Failing Motherboard
As with most computer components, the most common culprit when a motherboard fails is heat. All computer components are particularly sensitive to heat, and the inside of computer can become quite hot. Over time, this wears out the motherboard and can lead to its failure. A second common cause of motherboard failure is electrical damage. Commonly this occurs during computer maintenance such as installation of new peripheral devices. During maintenance, if the technician has static electricity built up on his or her hands, it can discharge into the motherboard, leading to a failure. Electrical surges, such as those created by lightning striking a power line, can also lead to motherboard failure. This is most commonly prevented by using a surge protector, but some surges are powerful enough to overpower the surge protector and destroy the motherboard. The last common cause of motherboard failure is physical damage. This can be in the form of water damage or actual physical impact. Although the motherboard is typically well protected, a strong enough hit to the computer case or the introduction of water into the case can lead to motherboard failure."

(taken from http://www.ehow.com/info_8774532_causes-motherboard-fry.html )

Whilst components do die generally from wear and tear, one of them reasons is much more likely? Do you use a surge protector? How often is the laptop moved, or, does it just sit in one place? They are two problems which are hard for you to prove either way.

Another question, just out of curiosity, did the laptop used to get hot? I used to have a Dell which, after a few years, it used to get realllyyy hot. Probably my fault for not ever cleaning out the cooling fans though...

TroutMask · 15-05-2013 09:33AM

the problem with ours was 'capacitor plague' caps - that's a common non-heat-related reason for MBs to die

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 15-05-2013 09:38AM

I've had a dell Inspiron since late 2006...all ive ever had too do was replace the battery once!its an absolute beast of a laptop and I use it djing,downloading music films and a general day too use!i bought a fan on amazon for 3 euro that is USB powered and the laptop sits on that what ever I'm doing and the unit NEVER heats up. Also I regularly clean all the temp folders delete partial files and use anti virus and cleaning software on it!

LowKeyReturn · 15-05-2013 11:06AM

Alan - I should know this myself but may be you could enlighten me? Can you sit in on the SmCC without a claim? Also which court are they based in? Assuming you're in Dublin.

Thanks I'd really like to go an sit in one afternoon as all the info I have on this is second-hand.

xpletiv · 15-05-2013 11:07AM

I just want to put my experience with dell motherboards; currently have 3 dell laptops (work laptops, not mine) that all have broken motherboards. Two kicked it just outside of the warrenty, one lasted a bit longer, but I am fully sure Dell built them this way to replace them.

I will never buy a dell ever again.

Alan_P · 15-05-2013 11:18AM

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Alan - I should know this myself but may be you could enlighten me? Can you sit in on the SmCC without a claim? Also which court are they based in? Assuming you're in Dublin.

Thanks I'd really like to go an sit in one afternoon as all the info I have on this is second-hand.

Yes, you can go and sit in without a claim :- I had a letter directing me where to go, but noone asked to see it. At the point where I was sitting in the court waiting for my case to be heard, I could have been anyone, and hadn't been asked to identify myself or state my business. And people were entering and leaving the court all day without being challenged :- I strongly suspected one girl who came in was a student doing some research.

My case was heard in the 4 Courts complex, in the Public Records Building. It was an interesting way to spend an afternoon, I must say.

LowKeyReturn · 15-05-2013 11:26AM

Thanks Alan!

To be fair you can wander in and out of most courts, I just wondered with the SmCC.

If you think the SmCC is interesting go and spend a morning in Judge Ring's court in the CCJ. IIRC it's court 5. It's an extremely busy courtroom!

mitosis · 15-05-2013 11:37AM

xpletiv wrote: »

I just want to put my experience with dell motherboards; currently have 3 dell laptops (work laptops, not mine) that all have broken motherboards. Two kicked it just outside of the warrenty, one lasted a bit longer, but I am fully sure Dell built them this way to replace them.

I will never buy a dell ever again.

For the sake of balance, our company has three Dell laptops and two desktops, the oldest from 2004. No breakdowns, all still in use, some 24/7.

vicwatson · 15-05-2013 09:38PM

DanWall wrote: »

A lot of people use a laptop in a way that does not let the air circulate, ie. use it on material such as cloth which does not give it any space underneath, this causes overheating and failure, you cannot blame the maker for that.

The laptop was used on a regular computer desk, no overheating, just wouldn't start one day (well it would power on for split second and shut down)

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Just to add, deal with the retailer, I presume you bought direct from Dell, if so proceed as above.

Direct from Dell and never again

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Warranty and consumer rights to reasonable durability are two different things. That's why you should always deal with the vendor in the first instance, as they are bound by the regulated contract and never, ever, ever buy extended warranties.

I agree with you regarding warranty and consumer rights in relation to reasonable durability - I don't believe 34 months is reasonable durability on a laptop with such little use

drumswan wrote: »

Every IT department in the world deals with extended warranty as part of support contracts with vendors. Its ridiculous to expect the likes of Dell to have to replace failed parts two years outside warranty. As someone else said, the failure could well be the rest of environmental factors.

Well, it's not ridiculous actually, this laptop was used for approximately 2 hours per day to read newspapers, not one file stored on it, i.e. image, video, words, excel files - nothing ! It was literally used for the purpose of browsing the newspapers and it was never moved about.

drumswan wrote: »

Have you a source for this? I worked for a consumer hardware vendor, we didnt replace hardware outside warranty, end of story. All manufacturers are the same, so not sure where the OP is going to take his custom next.

Bad news, Dell are actually pretty reliable. Maybe splash out on a mac.

http://www.zdnet.com/want-the-most-reliable-windows-pc-buy-a-mac-or-maybe-a-dell-7000014469/

I'll take my custom to any manufacturer that doesn't have the words "Dell" written on it

Alan_P wrote: »

I had a laptop fail after 2 years, and took it to the SCC. It was clear from my case, and other cases I listened to that day, that the minimum acceptable life span the judge expected for consumer electronics, including laptops, was 5 years. Warranties were completely irrelevant :- to quote the judge in my case :- "I don't recognise the word warranty and the concept doesn't exist in my courtroom".

I was awarded 3/5th of the purchase price, on the basis I'd had the use of the machine for 2 of the required 5 years.

Good on the Judge, my case will be quite simple, it cost 500 euro, it was used relatively very little and the motherboard bust - an integral part of the laptop bust in under 3 years, to me this is not a reasonable time

superb choice of username wrote: »

"Causes of a Failing Motherboard
As with most computer components, the most common culprit when a motherboard fails is heat. All computer components are particularly sensitive to heat, and the inside of computer can become quite hot. Over time, this wears out the motherboard and can lead to its failure. A second common cause of motherboard failure is electrical damage. Commonly this occurs during computer maintenance such as installation of new peripheral devices. During maintenance, if the technician has static electricity built up on his or her hands, it can discharge into the motherboard, leading to a failure. Electrical surges, such as those created by lightning striking a power line, can also lead to motherboard failure. This is most commonly prevented by using a surge protector, but some surges are powerful enough to overpower the surge protector and destroy the motherboard. The last common cause of motherboard failure is physical damage. This can be in the form of water damage or actual physical impact. Although the motherboard is typically well protected, a strong enough hit to the computer case or the introduction of water into the case can lead to motherboard failure."

(taken from http://www.ehow.com/info_8774532_causes-motherboard-fry.html )

Whilst components do die generally from wear and tear, one of them reasons is much more likely? Do you use a surge protector? How often is the laptop moved, or, does it just sit in one place? They are two problems which are hard for you to prove either way.

Another question, just out of curiosity, did the laptop used to get hot? I used to have a Dell which, after a few years, it used to get realllyyy hot. Probably my fault for not ever cleaning out the cooling fans though...

The laptop was never opened, never.

No surge protector but the house was never hit by lightning.

Nothing spilled in to it or near it

The laptop is never moved, sits in the one place and has done since day 1

Laptop didn't get hot, it was fine.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

LowKeyReturn · 15-05-2013 10:17PM

To be fair to Dell and the other posters - it's a standard policy across most PC suppliers.

Desktop components, on the other hand, can come with bonkers warranties - 10 years, double life time etc. the draw back is the manufactures take an absolute age to deal with anything and you normally have to send it to Timbuktu.

If Dell have a good deal it wouldn't put me off buying from them again. Almost everyone tries this 1 year warranty crap, that's why everyone believes it.

wmpdd3 · 15-05-2013 10:45PM

I'm sure you have tried this but there are some Dell V SCC victories here:

http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?forum=580&subforums=1&sort=best&date_to=&date_from=&query=dell+small+claims&page=2

Well worth going down that route, esp since you bought from DELL.

LowKeyReturn · 15-05-2013 10:49PM

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I'm sure you have tried this but there are some Dell V SCC victories here:

http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?forum=580&subforums=1&sort=best&date_to=&date_from=&query=dell+small+claims&page=2

Well worth going down that route, esp since you bought from DELL.

Fantastic idea of a sticky IMHO - SmCC procedure and victories.

TroutMask · 16-05-2013 10:18AM

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

To be fair to Dell and the other posters - it's a standard policy across most PC suppliers.

Desktop components, on the other hand, can come with bonkers warranties - 10 years, double life time etc. the draw back is the manufactures take an absolute age to deal with anything.

Defintely agree with this, Dell had all kinds of sexy warranty sweeteners, but when the crunch came they spent weeks trying to wriggle out of the repairs. They knew their quarry, i think their hope was that their delaying tactics would result in us giving up. They didn't have the greatest attitude when they finally showed up to fix 'em either. When a second tranch of their PCs failed, i fixed them myself rather than having to go through the pain of dealing with Dell warranty a second time. And that was the end of us & Dell.......forever!

kc90 · 17-05-2013 06:17PM

vicwatson wrote: »

Laptop was 34 months young

Very little use (and I mean very little)

Wouldn't switch on one day, took it to an engineer, said the Motherboard was goosed

Is a Dell only built to last under 3 years ?

How can a Motherboard just kaput in such a short time

Dell told me to take a hike it's outta warranty (then they offered to repair it for a cost of €250.00 :eek:)

National Consumers Assoc said I can claim up to 6 years

Surely a Dell Laptop should last a "reasonable" amount of time and that "reasonable" time is more than 3 years ??????

Was thinking of taking a small claims action as I think a "reasonable" time is more than 3 years on such an integral part of the laptop plus the fact it has flip all miles on it

Any advice appreciated

3 years is a pretty decent life for a laptop, however, if it was genuinely only lightly used and never travelled with, it is unusual. And in fairness, motherboards are like that on laptops, they just give up without any warning.

L1011 · 17-05-2013 06:37PM

As someone who works in this field, 3 years is a reasonable amount of time for a consumer laptop (Inspiron) and would realistically be pushing in on a business line (Latitude) one. I wouldn't see a case suceeding unless it was a business laptop of a kind that they will actually sell a 3 year next-day warranty on.

LowKeyReturn · 17-05-2013 09:23PM

MYOB wrote: »

As someone who works in this field

Bear in mind the arbiter of these things is the SmCC registrar. I've had Sony laptops last the best part of ten years, the keys fall of the casing gets grubby but the motherboard and all of the electronics keep trucking. Perhaps Dell are just a flimsy make?

Alan_P · 18-05-2013 08:18AM

MYOB wrote: »

As someone who works in this field, 3 years is a reasonable amount of time for a consumer laptop (Inspiron) and would realistically be pushing in on a business line (Latitude) one. I wouldn't see a case suceeding unless it was a business laptop of a kind that they will actually sell a 3 year next-day warranty on.

And yet I saw a SCC judge order a partial refund for a laptop that had only lasted 4 years. Mine had lasted 2 years, and I got a 3/5 refund.

Soundman · 18-05-2013 03:29PM

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Perhaps Dell are just a flimsy make?

Not in my experience. I still have a Dell Inspiron 6000 which is 9 years old. Still works away like a horse, though obviously the battery is screwed and there is a problem with the power socket. Other than that it's still pretty solid.

TroutMask · 18-05-2013 03:36PM

That's the thing with Dell, hit or miss. We had quite a bad experience with 2 generations of their products so never again. Even when they were firing on all cylinders the performance was mediocre compared with that of a bespoke PC we made (which had similar spec figures BTW).

Soundman · 18-05-2013 03:43PM

I also bought the ex a Dell Inspiron laptop about 3 years ago and that is still going strong, despite being dropped a few times.

Got my Dad a second hand Dimension tower about 6 years ago and absolutely no issues with it even though he is a complete technotard.

Same story with my sister. Same type tower, second hand aswell.

In my experience (not tarring everyone), those with issues with Dell are those that have no idea how to look after anything technological.

TroutMask · 18-05-2013 05:03PM

Soundman wrote: »

I also bought the ex a Dell Inspiron laptop about 3 years ago and that is still going strong, despite being dropped a few times.

Got my Dad a second hand Dimension tower about 6 years ago and absolutely no issues with it even though he is a complete technotard.

Same story with my sister. Same type tower, second hand aswell.

In my experience (not tarring everyone), those with issues with Dell are those that have no idea how to look after anything technological.

C'mon, they have runs of bad PCs and their warranty evasion tactics are legendary. I ended fixing six of them myself rather than deal with their warranty people. I'm talking PSU disassembly and cap replacement. At least then we could give the machines to charity, rather than have them clutter up the landfill. Dell are mediocre hit or miss machines at best.

Soundman · 18-05-2013 05:52PM

TroutMask wrote: »

C'mon, they have runs of bad PCs and their warranty evasion tactics are legendary. I ended fixing six of them myself rather than deal with their warranty people. I'm talking PSU disassembly and cap replacement. At least then we could give the machines to charity, rather than have them clutter up the landfill. Dell are mediocre hit or miss machines at best.

As I said... Not in my experience.

L1011 · 18-05-2013 08:36PM

Alan_P wrote: »

And yet I saw a SCC judge order a partial refund for a laptop that had only lasted 4 years. Mine had lasted 2 years, and I got a 3/5 refund.

Partial refund on what was likely an extremely cheap consumer laptop = not really worth your time and effort.

I would also hope they take in to account that consumer computing equipment does not have a lifespan of more than a few years to begin with.

I'd go after them for 2, probably even 3 years on a Lat. I doubt I'd bother after 18 months on an Inspiron.

Alan_P · 19-05-2013 06:27AM

MYOB wrote: »

I would also hope they take in to account that consumer computing equipment does not have a lifespan of more than a few years to begin with.

This is partially why my afternoon in the SCC was interesting. There were a number of cases about computers, and several retailer's representatives in those cases made comments like that.

The judge's response to those comments was always that computers have an expected lifespan of 5 years, and they should spread the word around the computer industry. She was completely adamant about it, and frankly didn't give a toss about distinctions between grades of laptop.

TroutMask · 19-05-2013 10:40AM

My Mac Classic (1990) still works, we play Tetris and Space Invaders on it. Looking around, we have 6-year-old iMacs (showing their age but still working), a dual-core Mac G4 from 2000 (works perfectly), a dual-core ASUS about 8 years old (a tad slow but fine in general); and a couple of laptops: an old Lenovo dual core ThinkPad (quite a fast machine and a nice display), a PowerBook (amazing graphics card - pushes projectors to the limit), and 2 MacBook Pro's - both very fast. I think the judge is right, consumers shouldn't have to foot the bill for shoddy manufacturing - and a computer should be useable for quite a long time (within reason) if it meets the user's needs.

L1011 · 19-05-2013 09:44PM

Alan_P wrote: »

This is partially why my afternoon in the SCC was interesting. There were a number of cases about computers, and several retailer's representatives in those cases made comments like that.

The judge's response to those comments was always that computers have an expected lifespan of 5 years, and they should spread the word around the computer industry. She was completely adamant about it, and frankly didn't give a toss about distinctions between grades of laptop.

Judge isn't particularly well informed, then.

Laptops in particularly are very easy to treat extremely badly without obvious damage, and downright refusing to accept that is extremely poor form.

However, I now know what I'll do when this one fails...

LowKeyReturn · 20-05-2013 01:44AM

MYOB wrote: »

Judge isn't particularly well informed, then.

Laptops in particularly are very easy to treat extremely badly without obvious damage, and downright refusing to accept that is extremely poor form.

However, I now know what I'll do when this one fails...

I think you'll find the consensus is against you I'm afraid. Dell et al can easily remedy any issue by providing a more reliable product. In fairness to Dell, notwithstanding my previous flippant attitude towards them, the majority of Dell products I have used have gone on forever more.

Dell have every right to bring the goods back and perform what ever tests they feel necessary to vindicate their rights if they believe the product has been damaged by the user. The fact is they do not; they simply hide behind their warranty and ignore consumer rights. Who exactly is showing extremely poor form here?

L1011 · 20-05-2013 07:15PM

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

I think you'll find the consensus is against you I'm afraid. Dell et al can easily remedy any issue by providing a more reliable product.

For the price charged for entry level Inspirons, that isn't possible. Pay buttons, get crap.

The judge is showing an utter lack of knowledge of the products they're ruling on the lifespan of.

Dell Laptop - "catastrophic failure" in less than 3 years - Lost a customer for life

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