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Schmuacher Judgement Needs To Change

  • 29-05-2013 10:13AM
    #1
    thegoth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭


    SHERLOCK SAYS NO!!!


Comments

  • #2
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Absolutely, & a few users including myself raised this question before this season began, because we can use Hamilton as a benchmark:

    "If Hamilton dominates Rosberg in 2013, it'll be a clear enough indicator that Schumacher was passed his best. Looking at Schumachers first two seasons, it was clear he was rough around the edges, & the sport was pretty different to how he left it. However looking at his third season, he was more than a match for Rosberg, & often outraced him on Sundays, but by & large, they were fairly evenly matched by the end of year 2012."

    "If Rosberg however takes the fight to Hamilton, & equals or betters him, it will be a clear enough indication that Schumacher, by the third year, was driving far, far better than he was being given credit for." [by virtue of the fact that Rosberg is equalling Hamilton]


  • #3
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    I'm not surprised that Rosberg is matching Hamilton more or less this year. I was surprised that Brawn told him to stay behind a slow Hamilton in Malaysia, as I couldn't see a good reason for leaving both drivers be crippled by one drivers bad tyres.
    Schumacher made errors that more highlighted a 43 year old's reactions versus a 25 year old's, not those of a poor driver. It's good though that people are realising this on the back of the Hamilton comparisons. I think Hamilton is kind of being revered as a Senna type driver, when he actually isn't.
    I also think that grid penalties are a bad idea. A fine and a 10 points dock is better fitment. To penalise a driver having a bad day in one race by damaging his next race where he might be having a good day is not good. It also means that the quickest driver on that track on that weekend is not the driver who leads the pack away, which defeats the whole point of a qualifying session for a race.


  • #4
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Tea 1000 wrote: »
    I'm not surprised that Rosberg is matching Hamilton more or less this year. I was surprised that Brawn told him to stay behind a slow Hamilton in Malaysia, as I couldn't see a good reason for leaving both drivers be crippled by one drivers bad tyres.

    Lets not forget Rosberg did pass out Hamilton, & was subsequently passed out by Hamilton on the next lap. Brawns' order seemed to me more of a 'lets not fugg this up, whoever is in front now stays in front' order.
    Schumacher made errors that more highlighted a 43 year old's reactions versus a 25 year old's, not those of a poor driver. It's good though that people are realising this on the back of the Hamilton comparisons. I think Hamilton is kind of being revered as a Senna type driver, when he actually isn't.

    I think Schumacher himself would agree with his reactions not being that of someone twenty years his junior, in fact, I think he openly said it during an interview.

    I also don't think this is about glofiying Hamilton at all. He's simply being used as a proper benchmark for Rosberg because we know what his strengths and weaknesses are. I think had any other existing driver moved to Merc, we'd still have a basis of comparison to Rosberg, this has really little got to do with how good or bad Hamilton is. Comparing Rosberg to Schumacher wasn't really possible, as Schumacher was an unknown quantity. Although looking at Rosberg v Hamilton now, I think it paints Schumacher in a good light.
    I also think that grid penalties are a bad idea. A fine and a 10 points dock is better fitment. To penalise a driver having a bad day in one race by damaging his next race where he might be having a good day is not good. It also means that the quickest driver on that track on that weekend is not the driver who leads the pack away, which defeats the whole point of a qualifying session for a race.

    Its not good to penalise a future race for a bad day at the office, but its ok to hurt his championship effort?? Surely the next race is the lesser of two evils?


  • #5
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,812 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I was intending to start a thread re this topic but I figured 10 races in might be a better time to do it.
    Without doubt, it now shows that schumacher was still very very quick. I personally thought hamilton would have an edge over rosberg but this is currently very much not the case.
    If rosberg can finish the season ahead of Hamilton on points, we really can finally rate rosberg as a class act and finally see that schumacher was still plenty quick to be a winner in f1.
    Schumacher is fairly pissed now that he didnt manage to hang around for another year id say.

    Bring back schumi I say :)


  • #6
    Max_Charger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Max_Charger


    6 races lads, 6. Far too early to be making any kind of comparison.


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  • #7
    tunguska
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    Yeah I thought Michael really should've given it another year or 2. I think he still had a lot of his old powers but was just unlucky with reliability. He seemed to be getting it together when he called it quits. I think for a guy like him, who was so used to winning all the time, it must've been hard to be finishing outside the podium places and maybe that played on his mind. I think aswell the media have a big roll to play in these things. I dont think a race went by when pundits and the print media wouldn't be writing him off, saying he was past it and it was time to pack it in. No matter how thick skinned you are thats gotta get into you head. I really feel like he was gonna start winining again, it was only a matter of time.


  • #8
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Its not good to penalise a future race for a bad day at the office, but its ok to hurt his championship effort?? Surely the next race is the lesser of two evils?
    No. Each race is it's own entity. The championship is the end goal. The grid penalty is supposed to be a penalty ultimately to hurt their championship bid, but what it does on a larger level is hurt a driver's performance on a specific race that's completely separate to the previous one.
    Why ruin two races from one action? Just penalise them by way of championship points and race on in the position that you've earned by way of your time against the clock. Not your time against the clock minus some judgement against you.


  • #9
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    Max_Charger wrote: »
    6 races lads, 6. Far too early to be making any kind of comparison.
    Well, many of the Schumacher bashers were judging him on around that number of poor races, against all his years of good ones!!


  • #10
    losthorizon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭losthorizon


    I wonder what would happen if that article was shown to David Coulthard?

    I shudder to think.


  • #11
    liam7831
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭liam7831


    Maybe Schu should have resorted to his old tried & trusted tactics and he would have been more successful.........


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  • #12
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,567 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Meh, Schumacher is supposed to be the greatest of all time, and was only average against Rosberg during his comeback, rather than completely dominant. That says he was past it.
    There not a whole lot more to look into IMO.


  • #13
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Meh, Schumacher is supposed to be the greatest of all time, and was only average against Rosberg during his comeback, rather than completely dominant. That says he was past it.
    There not a whole lot more to look into IMO.

    There is no such thing as 'greatest of all time', drivers are products of their era's. Was Schumacher the greatest of all time? Unlikely. Was he the greatest of his era? Arguably, but certainly the most successful.

    The fact a 43 year old man, was matching & beating someone who at the mo is outdriving Hamilton, a guy we know is quick...says a lot.


  • #14
    Max_Charger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Max_Charger


    EnterNow wrote: »

    The fact a 43 year old man, was matching & beating someone who at the mo is outdriving Hamilton, a guy we know is quick...says a lot.

    It's not a level playing field, Rosberg has been with the team for going on 4 seasons, when Schumi started they both started from scratch so it was comparable. Hamilton spent 13 years with McLaren and knew nothing else but McLaren, it's going to take a while to fully adapt. I'll say it again, 6 races is too soon.


  • #15
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Max_Charger wrote: »
    It's not a level playing field, Rosberg has been with the team for going on 4 seasons, when Schumi started they both started from scratch so it was comparable.

    Except Schumacher hadn't sat in an F1 car for four years don't forget. He never used Kers either, nor raced on the newer tyres. Hardly comparable.
    Hamilton spent 13 years with McLaren and knew nothing else but McLaren, it's going to take a while to fully adapt. I'll say it again, 6 races is too soon.

    I'm not trying to take anything away from Hamilton, I'm a fan of him in fact ;) I think the fact that Rosberg is at the moment the better of the two, paints Schumacher in a very positive light. I've no doubt Hamilton will find his space & improve over the season. Extreme tyre management just doesn't suit his driving style really, it'll have to change.


  • #16
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    EnterNow wrote: »
    I've no doubt Hamilton will find his space & improve over the season. Extreme tyre management just doesn't suit his driving style really, it'll have to change.
    That is true about Hamilton, he seems to need to find a groove, then once he slots in he's quick for many races. Then something small bucks him out of it and he's complaining to the media again!
    He was like a wet blanket in the drivers parade on Sunday. He's normally good but unlucky in Canada too, so you never know what we'll get there, but Silverstone could be his turn-around. Home turf, a track he likes and new Pirelli's.


  • #17
    liam7831
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭liam7831


    When he didn't have the best car he was quite ordinary really.

    Rosberg v Schumacher stats compared

    Qualifying
    Faster qualifying time: Rosberg 41 / Schumacher 17
    Poles: Rosberg 1 / Schumacher 
0
    Front rows: Rosberg 2 / Schumacher 1

    Races
    Wins: Rosberg 1 / Schumacher 0
    Podiums: Rosberg 5 / Schumacher 1
    Points finishes: Rosberg 39 / Schumacher 31
    DNFs: Rosberg 7 / Schumacher 15
    Best race result (inc DNFs): Rosberg 35 / Schumacher 22
    Ahead in two-car finish: Rosberg 22 / Schumacher 15

    Championship
    Overall points: Rosberg 324 / Schumacher 197
    Seasons finished higher in standings: Rosberg 3 / Schumacher 0
    Highest championship placing: Rosberg 7th (2010, 2011) / Schumacher 8th (2011)


  • #18
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    liam7831 wrote: »
    Overall points: Rosberg 324 / Schumacher 197

    So, for being outside of an F1 car for four years, & have over double the amount of dnf's that Rosberg did, a gap of only 127 over three seasons either says Rosberg could have done a lot better, or Schumacher was better at scoring points towards the end. You would have thought the points gap would be much bigger considering...


  • #19
    liam7831
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭liam7831


    EnterNow wrote: »
    So, for being outside of an F1 car for four years, & have over double the amount of dnf's that Rosberg did, a gap of only 127 over three seasons either says Rosberg could have done a lot better, or Schumacher was better at scoring points towards the end. You would have thought the points gap would be much bigger considering...

    Get real, he got his ass kicked in every single stat


  • #20
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,812 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    liam7831 wrote: »
    Get real, he got his ass kicked in every single stat

    The reality is that schumacher in year 3 was the better of the 2 drivers. The amount of dnf skews the stats.


  • #21
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    liam7831 wrote: »
    Get real, he got his ass kicked in every single stat

    Ya don't say :)

    I think though when you actually analyse that stats, & actually read into them in conjunction with having watched all three seasons, the picture they paint is certainly not so clear cut. The amount of points lost through mechanical failure totally skews the results, anyone who watched the last three seasons or with half a brain can deduce that much.


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  • #22
    liam7831
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭liam7831


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Ya don't say :)

    I think though when you actually analyse that stats, & actually read into them in conjunction with having watched all three seasons, the picture they paint is certainly not so clear cut. The amount of points lost through mechanical failure totally skews the results, anyone who watched the last three seasons or with half a brain can deduce that much.

    Ya 2012 why did he get a 5 place grid penalty in Monaco & a 10 place grid penalty in Suzuka??


  • #23
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    liam7831 wrote: »
    Ya 2012 why did he get a 5 place grid penalty in Monaco & a 10 place grid penalty in Suzuka??

    I said mechanical failures, not grid penalties.


  • #24
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,812 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Will be interesting to see if finger boy can stick an f1 car on pole in monaco in 2032 or there abouts.


  • #25
    liam7831
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭liam7831


    _60210502_mmmotf1sennaschumachercrashreaction.jpg

    Well I suppose driving straight into the back of Senna in Spain technically is a mechanical retirement............


    Singapore
    _63063477_mmf1schumachercrash.jpg

    Another mechanical fault here I suppose, deduce that!


  • #26
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Nah, thats plain ol' simple driver error, not a mechanical failure. There's a big difference between them, but don't worry, not everyone gets it first time. Curious though how you managed to ignore the multitude of other car/mechanical failures. But yeah you're prob right about him, he probably fluked the seven world titles really when I think about it.


  • #27
    liam7831
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭liam7831


    Don't be going off topic, its the pityful comeback we are discussing. Trying to revert to the past aint going to cover over that


  • #28
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    liam7831 wrote: »
    Don't be going off topic, its the pityful comeback we are discussing. Trying to revert to the past aint going to cover over that

    A 127 point differential over three seasons, for a man out of a an F1 car for four years, versus a guy who had experience with KERS, modern tyres etc. I dunno, I really don't see it as pityful. I can't help but imagine if the car hadn't have failed so many times during 2012 & 2013 {his own two errors aside}, that he could have actually matched Rosberg on points. 127 is nothing over three seasons, & I'd certainly call 2010 pityful for him.


  • #29
    Tea 1000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    Blindly looking at the statistics is silly. Schumacher did get Pole too, but was penalised for race start. His car suffered a lot more from mechanical problems.
    Driving into the back of people? If Senna got a f**king move on he wouldn't have had anyone drive into the back of him. Where is he this year?!?


  • #30
    Max_Charger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Max_Charger


    Tea 1000 wrote: »
    If Senna got a f**king move on he wouldn't have had anyone drive into the back of him. Where is he this year?!?

    Took me a lot longer to realise that you were talking about Bruno and not Ayrton than I'd like to admit :o


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  • #31
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Max_Charger wrote: »
    Took me a lot longer to realise that you were talking about Bruno and not Ayrton than I'd like to admit :o

    For god sake man :D


  • #32
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    liam7831 wrote: »
    Get real, he got his ass kicked in every single stat

    Sorry to everyone again for posting this. I really try to ignore foolish posts.

    To those of you are posting here saying MS return was terrible ... he should have never come back ..... he was always rubbish ... he always had the best car ... Nico destroyed him.

    Schumi came back after a 3 year absence as a 40 year old rookie to a different F1 that he left, here is a breakdown of what actually happened.

    MS results 2012

    Qually
    MS 10 NR 10

    Race's MS 10 NR 10


    2012 actual results

    AUS:
    Qualy 4th,
    Race DNF. Reason: Gearbox failure WAS in 3rd place

    MAL:
    Qualy 3rd,
    Race 10th, Reason: Spun by Grosjean Was in 3rd place

    CHI:
    Qualy 2nd,
    Race DNF, Reason: Wheel Not fitted correctly, wheel fell off after pit stop. A definite 2nd place, maybe could have challenged NR.

    BAH:
    Qualy 23,
    Race 10th, Reason: Faulty DRS, gearbox change penalty

    SPA:
    Qualy 8th,
    Race DNF, Reason:Hit Senna Racing accident

    Monaco PENALTY

    MON:
    Qualy: Pole,
    race DNF, Reason: Grid penalty, hit by Grosjean at start, FUEL failure

    CAN
    Qualy: 9 (miscalculation from team no second flying lap,
    race DNF reason. DRS stuck open

    EUR
    Qualy: 12th
    race 3rd. Very lucky PODIUM (deserved) oldest driver since 1970

    GB
    Qualy: 3rd in wet,
    race 7th

    GER
    Qualy: 3rd in wet,
    race 7th (77th fastest race lap )

    HUN
    Qualy: 17th (Maldonado ran wide in front of MS on qualy lap),
    Race: DNF Gearbox failure (classed race 24th)
    Aborted start, overheating engine on the grid, pit lane start, puncture, drive through penalty

    BEL 300th race.
    Qualy 13th (NR 17th) (Vettel 11th)
    Race 7th was running 2nd (Merc tyres couldn't do planned 1 stop).

    ITA
    Qualy 4th
    Race 6th. Good pace at the end, .4 second behind kimi, and 1.6 behind massa in 4th

    Sing
    Qualy 9th
    Race ........DNF...... Crashes into offline JEV

    Jap
    Qual 13th + 10 place grid penalty
    Race 11th (less than 1 second from point)

    Korea
    Qual 10th
    Race 13th

    India
    Qual 14th
    Race 22nd DNF 1st lap puncture and Gearbox failure

    Abu Dhabi
    Qual 13th + 10 place grid penalty
    Race 11th (less than half second from point)
    Another puncture while in 7th place on lap 43

    Texas USA
    Qual 6th
    Race 16th just went backwards Tyres tyres tyres

    Brazil
    Qual 14th
    Race 7th another puncture, last and lapped at one stage


    In 2011 he was 76 to rosbergs 89.


    In Spa he was on it. Fastest on friday. Got demoted to the back of the grid due to a wheel came loose in qualifying, and he finished ahead of Nico in 5th. He was also taken out by Perez, Petrov and knocked out of Oz gp by puncture damage. 5 retirements in all.



    Lets just look at the actual breakdown of 2010


    In 2010 he was rusty. Here's wiki

    Bahrain Grand Prix. 6th

    Australian Grand Prix Schumacher, after running as high as third on the opening lap, was caught up in a tangle between Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button at the start and had to pit for a new front wing. He came from the back to finish in the points in tenth position after spending 20 laps behind Toro Rosso's Jaime Alguersuari.

    In the Malaysian Grand Prix Schumacher retired early in the race with a faulty wheel nut.

    Schumacher qualified 9th in the Chinese Grand Prix and finished 10th after being passed by several other drivers in the wet conditions towards the end of the race. ]

    Spanish Grand Prix, Mercedes upgraded their car with revised aerodynamics and a longer wheelbase. Schumacher was ahead of Rosberg in qualifying and the race finishing fourth

    Monaco Grand Prix Schumacher qualified seventh and finished sixth after passing Ferrari's Fernando Alonso on the final corner of the race when the safety car returned to the pits. However he was penalised 20 seconds after the race by the race stewards dropping him to 12th

    In Turkey, Schumacher had his best qualifying session since his return qualifying fifth ahead of team mate Rosberg in sixth. In the race Schumacher finished fourth

    European Grand Prix in Valencia, Schumacher finished a lowly 15th – his lowest recorded finish in his career – after being caught up in a controversial safety-car ruling, which also ruined the race of Fernando

    Alonso.[112] Schumacher was near the front of the field until he was stuck at the end of the pit lane, following the safety car, while the majority of the field passed him.

    Hungary, Schumacher finished outside the points in eleventh, but was found guilty of dangerous driving at 180 mph (290 km/h) while unsuccessfully defending tenth position against Rubens Barrichello. DESERVED

    Belgian Grand Prix, where he finished seventh, despite starting 21st after his grid penalty.

    Italian Grand Prix, Schumacher missed out on the top ten in qualifying but managed to finish ninth.

    Singapore Grand Prix, Schumacher finished 13th after the Sauber of Nick Heidfeld collided with him on Lap 36,

    Japanese Grand Prix, Schumacher finished sixth before a fourth and seventh in the next two races in Korea and Brazil.

    Abu Dhabi, Schumacher was involved in a major accident on the first lap, which occurred after Schumacher was spun around by his teammate Nico Rosberg.[/QUOTE]
    user_online.pngreport.gif

    liam7831 wrote: »
    Well I suppose driving straight into the back of Senna in Spain technically is a mechanical retirement............


    Singapore
    Another mechanical fault here I suppose, deduce that!

    You mean

    SPAIN Senna : when Senna changed his line braking and forced MS into an accident

    Singapore : the lap after a safety car, tyre pressures etc


  • #33
    bbsrs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭bbsrs


    MS was unlucky on his return , the most unlucky though is he had to give up his seat before this year. I wonder has Hamiltons input aided substantially the Merc development this year ? Could he have given better feedback than MS did?


  • #34
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Breakdown of Schumi bad luck

    Not at all, I actually went looking for that post last night but couldn't remember who posted it & where it was. Though I suspect it'd be a futile effort anyway, some people just don't want to know.
    bbsrs wrote: »
    MS was unlucky on his return , the most unlucky though is he had to give up his seat before this year. I wonder has Hamiltons input aided substantially the Merc development this year ? Could he have given better feedback than MS did?

    I doubt it, Merc's car has likely been in development since early on in the 2012 season. Hamilton wouldn't have been allowed near it until part of the team.


  • #35
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Not at all, I actually went looking for that post last night but couldn't remember who posted it & where it was. Though I suspect it'd be a futile effort anyway, some people just don't want to know.

    I know, it was all Schumi's fault.


  • #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    EnterNow wrote: »
    The fact a 43 year old man, was matching & beating someone who at the mo is outdriving Hamilton, a guy we know is quick...says a lot.

    Yet Hamilton was beaten over 3 seasons by Button, a guy we know is slow.


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  • #37
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yet Hamilton was beaten over 3 seasons by Button, a guy we know is slow.

    Button slow? Yeah, I suppose he has been lately, his team mate certainly seems to think so. In saying that, Button & Hamilton have both been world champions...they don't have to prove themselves at this stage, they either race well or they don't. Hamilton on the whole, aside from a very rough season in 2011, is a quick chap. Button, has the determination, skill & grit needed to be a world champion...he's proved that. As it stands for Rosberg, such a feat is only a dream at this point.


  • #38
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    I have always maintaned, during the entire duration of his comeback, that Schumacher hadn't lost an ounce of his skills and that Rosberg was one of the most underrated drivers on the grid.

    Motorsports in general and Formula 1 in particular are naturally skewed towards the vehicle: a great car will strongly enhance its drivers skills because it provides confidence and a bit of margin (the driver doesn't need to push things to the ragged edge in order to extract performance).

    A great driver in a great car will win championships; A decent driver in a great car will win races, and possibly some championships; A great driver in a bad car will pull some good performances, will outdrive it and win the odd race, but most times will come home in the middle of the pack. We've seen it multiple times, with Prost, with Piquet, with Senna, with Alonso...heck even with Schumacher himself in 2005.

    Still, people expected him to come back and resume wiping the floor with everybody, forgetting that he'd be driving machinery that was decidedly less-than-stellar...


  • #39
    Max_Charger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Max_Charger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yet Hamilton was beaten over 3 seasons by Button, a guy we know is slow.

    Thought this was an interesting thing for JB to say considering I thought the two didn't part on the greatest of terms, if the papers are to be believed:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22935173


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