Dissident turfcutters

galwayrush · 30-06-2013 10:35PM

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

They're pissing off a few crusties really well, so fair play to them

Something positive from the saga..:D

Sirfartsalot · 30-06-2013 10:43PM

The EU directive does set a new precedence in Irish bulls.hitery.

Preventing people whose families have used this source of fuel for generations is just nonsense.

Jester252 · 30-06-2013 10:44PM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

If I kick Jimmy in the groin really, really hard, and he goes off whinging to himself but does nothing, whereas when I go to kick Mike in the groin really really hard and he sidesteps and puts me in an armlock, is your point that we should all be Jimmys?

No my point is don't use pointless arguement that add nothing.

NuckingFacker · 30-06-2013 11:15PM

Jester252 wrote: »

No my point is don't use pointless arguement that add nothing.

It does add somthing, you just don't get it. Some people don't take well to being told what to do/getting bossed around/sticking to other peoples nonsense agendas. They won't just take the kick in the rocks, they'll fight back a bit. And good for them. Bord na Mona thrash acre upon acre upon acre of bog, no problem. Small guys cut a bit - big issue. Feck off.

hfallada · 30-06-2013 11:23PM

They want to destroy something which took thousands of years to form and is so unique to Ireland. Some of the weirdest and incredible things have been found in the bog eg bog butter, deer horns. But yet they want to destroy it for a fuel that gives little heat. I think if they had high speed broadband, they would have something better to do and probably not destroying our heritage.

Conmaicne Mara · 30-06-2013 11:36PM

hfallada wrote: »

Some of the weirdest and incredible things have been found in the bog eg bog butter, deer horns.

If only we knew what activity people were engaged in leading to discoveries of items buried in the bog.

Where's Scooby Doo when you need him

end of the road · 30-06-2013 11:40PM

Old and grey wrote: »

These turf cutters are just criminal scum, easy way to deal with them is arrest them, convict them, and then set the CAB on them to recover the costs.

LOL, sounds like we have an extremist among us, its only a f//king bog, get over it, cut away lads its your land, to arrest them and convict them would cost to much, once we set cab on them they will have nothing so will have to cut even more turf, heres an idea, how about those who want the bogs protected so badly club together and buy them, 1000000 per bog should suffice for the owners and allow them to have enough money to keep going for probably the rest of their life.

Galwayguy35 · 30-06-2013 11:44PM

hfallada wrote: »

They want to destroy something which took thousands of years to form and is so unique to Ireland. Some of the weirdest and incredible things have been found in the bog eg bog butter, deer horns. But yet they want to destroy it for a fuel that gives little heat. I think if they had high speed broadband, they would have something better to do and probably not destroying our heritage.

I'd hazzard a guess you never saved turf did you?

Dostoevsky · 30-06-2013 11:46PM

Sirfartsalot wrote: »

The EU directive does set a new precedence in Irish bulls.hitery.

Preventing people whose families have used this source of fuel for generations is just nonsense.

Yes, because they've been using these enormous machines in the same bogs for generations also, right? Look at the massive machines in this RTÉ clip from today's news. Can anybody honestly say this is an ancient Irish tradition in practice?

These people are not some dispossessed post-Cromwellian spáilpíní fánacha, writing aisling poetry about a foreign king coming to save the Irish and attending cúirteanna while receiving patronage from the remnants of the Mac Diarmada Rua or the Ó Néill. No siree. They're trying to portray themselves as defenders of ancient tradition. Nothing, in reality, could be further from the truth.

These people are using very large machines to destroy these environmental areas for personal gain. They, and not the EU, are destroying the tradition which they claim to be defending. This has little to do with continuity of local turbary tradition, and everything to do with the oldest tradition of all, mé féinerism.

Jester252 · 30-06-2013 11:48PM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

It does add somthing, you just don't get it. Some people don't take well to being told what to do/getting bossed around/sticking to other peoples nonsense agendas. They won't just take the kick in the rocks, they'll fight back a bit. And good for them. Bord na Mona thrash acre upon acre upon acre of bog, no problem. Small guys cut a bit - big issue. Feck off.

No it doesn't and don't try to claim its does. You seem to like pointless argument. Why should some people destroy the local eco-system when they feel like it? They is a major difference between Bord na Mona and some random farmer. The farmer does not have to answer to environmental issues in order to cut the turf unlike Bord na Mona.

washman3 · 30-06-2013 11:50PM

Old and grey wrote: »

These turf cutters are just criminal scum, easy way to deal with them is arrest them, convict them, and then set the CAB on them to recover the costs.

Exactly, lock them up in the same prison where the Anglo boys are languishing at the moment..:D:D

My God we do have some f#####g clowns posting here now.

washman3 · 30-06-2013 11:56PM

MadsL wrote: »

Personally, I think there is huge self interest at play, people who have invested in expensive machinery who have riled up local people and are presenting it as some heroic effort.

Or maybe the 'vested interests' are our 'friends' in Europe who are constantly lobbied by the 'alternative fuels' brigade..?
Reminds my of our friend in the Green Party a few years ago stating that petrol should be €30 a gallon. Turned out this great guardian of the environment had €200,000 shares in an oil company.;)

Phoebas · 01-07-2013 12:00AM

washman3 wrote: »

Reminds my of our friend in the Green Party a few years ago stating that petrol should be €30 a gallon. Turned out this great guardian of the environment had €200,000 shares in an oil company.;)

Who was that?

NuckingFacker · 01-07-2013 12:02AM

Jester252 wrote: »

No it doesn't and don't try to claim its does. You seem to like pointless argument. Why should some people destroy the local eco-system when they feel like it? They is a major difference between Bord na Mona and some random farmer. The farmer does not have to answer to environmental issues in order to cut the turf unlike Bord na Mona.

I live in the bog. Bord Na mona cut peat 500m from my back window. So do my neighbours. I know who does more damage. I also had a laugh at your self-righteous guff about Bnm and the environment. They're currently stuffing millions of tonnes of Dublins garbage into a bog a few miles down the road. Environment me hole. I think your arguement is pointless, misinformed and just plain whingey. I'll keep mine, you keep yours.

MadsL · 01-07-2013 12:18AM

Rasheed wrote: »

Yep all very true. Costs money for a modern heating system or a pellet stove though. I'm not defending the actions of the people that cut turf today or in the last few months on protected bogs. But if you applied for the Compensation or a replacement and haven't gotten either, you're going to get worried.

Ten years to save and even residential grants available from Sustainable Energy Ireland for Irish residents. For a typical system installation, €800 of grant aid for a wood-pellet stove, €1,400 of grant aid for a stove with integral backboiler, or €2,500 for Biotech wood pellet boilers which will heat your entire house.

Dostoevsky · 01-07-2013 12:19AM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

I live in the bog. Bord Na mona cut peat 500m from my back window. So do my neighbours. I know who does more damage. I also had a laugh at your self-righteous guff about Bnm and the environment. They're currently stuffing millions of tonnes of Dublins garbage into a bog a few miles down the road. Environment me hole. I think your arguement is pointless, misinformed and just plain whingey. I'll keep mine, you keep yours.

It has been explained by MadsL, rationally and with a reference, that Bord na Móna is not cutting peat from one of the protected, raised "red flag" bogs. It has further been explained that Bord na Móna has transferred control of those protected raised bogs to the conservation authorities of this state. Why can you not accept this?

Raised Bogs

washman3 · 01-07-2013 12:20AM

Phoebas wrote: »

Who was that?

i'll try to find the link. think i posted here a year or 2 ago to prove to some headbanger what was really behind this kind of bulls##t.

Dostoevsky · 01-07-2013 12:28AM

washman3 wrote: »

i'll try to find the link. think i posted here a year or 2 ago to prove to some headbanger what was really behind this kind of bulls##t.

Could this supposed "headbanger" have been Ciarán Cuffe, whose mother was a sister of Ethel Kennedy, Robert Kennedy's wife and who inherited wealth from that connection, a wealth which was revealed in 2003 when it transpired he had shares in environmentally 'unethical' corporations?

Just because you disagree with somebody does not mean they're a "headbanger".

MadsL · 01-07-2013 12:32AM

Zzippy wrote: »

AFAIK the peat bogs in the midlands, that BnM also cut, are all raised bog. Blanket bog is the bog on the upland areas along the west coast.

Gee Bag wrote: »

Afraid not. Raised bogs occur on level terrain, Blanket bogs occur on slopes.

Get it right.

http://www.ipcc.ie/a-to-z-peatlands/blanket-bogs/
http://www.ipcc.ie/a-to-z-peatlands/raised-bogs/

Almost a year ago to the day, we released a report revealing the ongoing destruction of Ireland’s protected raised bogs as a result of mechanised turf cutting (peat extraction for fuel), following unannounced site visits to 33 of Ireland’s 53 raised bog Natura 2000 sites. The report recorded widespread turf cutting on protected raised bogs on a scale which had not been reported by Irish authorities to the European Commission. source

Sirfartsalot wrote: »

The EU directive does set a new precedence in Irish bulls.hitery.

Preventing people whose families have used this source of fuel for generations is just nonsense.

People used slaves for generations to farm their land too, should that be also permitted?

MadsL · 01-07-2013 12:34AM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Could this supposed "headbanger" have been Ciarán Cuffe, whose mother was a sister of Ethel Kennedy, Robert Kennedy's wife and who inherited wealth from that connection, a wealth which was revealed in 2003 when it transpired he had shares in environmentally 'unethical' corporations?

Just because you disagree with somebody does not mean they're a "headbanger".

Wonder what most people's pensions are invested in. Plenty of 'ethical' sh*t if you go digging.

washman3 · 01-07-2013 12:42AM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Could this supposed "headbanger" have been Ciarán Cuffe, whose mother was a sister of Ethel Kennedy, Robert Kennedy's wife and who inherited wealth from that connection, a wealth which was revealed in 2003 when it transpired he had shares in environmentally 'unethical' corporations?

Just because you disagree with somebody does not mean they're a "headbanger".

Read my post again bud, i said i posted the link to appease some headbanger that was posting her, and my God there are some good ones.:)

washman3 · 01-07-2013 12:44AM

MadsL wrote: »

Wonder what most people's pensions are invested in. Plenty of 'ethical' sh*t if you go digging.

Hardly the turfcutting industry i would say..;)

MadsL · 01-07-2013 12:45AM

In February 1998, Síle de Valera, then Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, announced that she would seek to phase out turf cutting in blanket bog SACs over 5–10 years, and that a ban on turf cutting should apply immediately in respect of raised bog SACs.

However, by February 1999 - just one year later - following “a series of consultations…with representatives of the farm organisations and turf cutters”,14 the government’s position had changed fundamentally. Minister de Valera announced a self-awarded, unlawful ‘derogation’ of up to 10 years for ‘domestic cutting’ in raised bogs and a ‘derogation’ of indefinite duration for cutting in blanket bog SACs.

The results have been devastating, and cutting continues to this day, notwithstanding the expiry of the unlawful ‘derogation’.

In their 2006 Report, “Assessment of impacts of turf cutting on designated raised bogs”,15 Valverde et al. record “the reduction in the original raised bog area [in Ireland] from 311,000ha to [the] current area of around 18,000ha [a reduction of over 94%].” Ireland’s 2007 Article 17 report to the European Commission under the Habitats Directive recorded a further decrease of 36% in active raised bog extent from 1994-2005.

Source

MadsL · 01-07-2013 12:46AM

washman3 wrote: »

Hardly the turfcutting industry i would say..;)

No, but plenty of vested interest, investing in machines and money made from turfcutting industry. Just note who owns the machines and who is most vocal.

Jester252 · 01-07-2013 12:51AM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

I live in the bog. Bord Na mona cut peat 500m from my back window. So do my neighbours. I know who does more damage. I also had a laugh at your self-righteous guff about Bnm and the environment. They're currently stuffing millions of tonnes of Dublins garbage into a bog a few miles down the road. Environment me hole. I think your arguement is pointless, misinformed and just plain whingey. I'll keep mine, you keep yours.

All your arugements are pointless.
What does Bord na Mona have to do with preventing these peoples from cutting turf on protect land? It seems that you have issues with Bord na Mona.

MadsL · 01-07-2013 12:54AM

Jester252 wrote: »

What does Bord na Mona have to do with preventing these peoples from cutting turf on protect land? It seems that you have issues with Bord na Mona.

It is a convenient distractor from the issues.

mickdw · 01-07-2013 12:58AM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Yes, because they've been using these enormous machines in the same bogs for generations also, right? Look at the massive machines in this RTÉ clip from today's news. Can anybody honestly say this is an ancient Irish tradition in practice?

These people are not some dispossessed post-Cromwellian spáilpíní fánacha, writing aisling poetry about a foreign king coming to save the Irish and attending cúirteanna while receiving patronage from the remnants of the Mac Diarmada Rua or the Ó Néill. No siree. They're trying to portray themselves as defenders of ancient tradition. Nothing, in reality, could be further from the truth.

These people are using very large machines to destroy these environmental areas for personal gain. They, and not the EU, are destroying the tradition which they claim to be defending. This has little to do with continuity of local turbary tradition, and everything to do with the oldest tradition of all, mé féinerism.

To be fair most families still only cut for their own use so the same amount of turf is being taken. Yes those machines are destructive but the turf could still be got with little machinery thereby surely meeting everyone's needs yet I've not heard of this being an option.
One Man with a shade and a slean is not going to so much as kill a butterfly. A tractor and trailer of moderate size take the turf home is going to do little damage.

washman3 · 01-07-2013 01:02AM

MadsL wrote: »

No, but plenty of vested interest, investing in machines and money made from turfcutting industry. Just note who owns the machines and who is most vocal.

Our Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has his money in German Government Bonds and Willie O'Dea has his in the Blood Diamond industry in Sierra Leone. what would your opinion be on this.??
Actaully those 'monsterous' machines do well to break even every season.
they cost about €400 a day on diesel alone before the driver and other overheads are paid. i would'nt exactly class this as a vested interest.
One owner told me a while back that he would make more cash if he sold his machine as scrap metal, so small is the margin of profit.

Schwiiing · 01-07-2013 01:05AM

There is a special place in hell for the fella who came up with the idea of cutting turf.

MadsL · 01-07-2013 01:05AM

mickdw wrote: »

To be fair most families still only cut for their own use so the same amount of turf is being taken. Yes those machines are destructive but the turf could still be got with little machinery thereby surely meeting everyone's needs yet I've not heard of this being an option.
One Man with a shade and a slean is not going to so much as kill a butterfly. A tractor and trailer of moderate size take the turf home is going to do little damage.

Yet.

Hand peat cutting accounts for a staggering 64% loss and afforestation accounts for 2% of the loss of habitat in the Republic of Ireland. This leaves 10% of the raised bogs remaining which are deemed suitable for conservation.

http://www.ipcc.ie/a-to-z-peatlands/raised-bogs/

Dissident turfcutters

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