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The future of Christianity in Ireland?

  • 30-10-2013 09:01PM
    #1
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭


    Is there one? If so how do you see it and what do you see that future's relation to both the Bible and historic Christianity?


Comments

  • #2
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    Many churches are going through unprecedented growth, mainly evangelical, apostolic or pentacostal churches. These would be biblically based and also modeled on first century practices, in a modern setting


  • #3
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    homer911 wrote: »
    Many churches are going through unprecedented growth, mainly evangelical, apostolic or pentacostal churches. These would be biblically based and also modeled on first century practices, in a modern setting

    True Pentecostal Churches are growing-but compare their growth in Brazil and than look at Ireland (Im thinking primarily of the 26 counties). Im also not sure that they are modeled on first century practices but I guess that would be for another thread.

    Also some "Non-Conformist" Churches are filled with solid Christians who in my opinion are wrong about some things but they do have the Spirit of Christ in them- some though market a pop "Christianity". I would hate to see the out and out Americanization of Christianity in Ireland.


  • #4
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,796 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Given the long and mostly positive contribution Catholicism has made to Irish social fabric, the doctrinal vigour of the Pope emeritus coupled with the enthusiasm that Pope Francis has generated means that the large volume of mass goers are a solid foundation for future growth.


  • #5
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Manach wrote: »
    Given the long and mostly positive contribution Catholicism has made to Irish social fabric, the doctrinal vigour of the Pope emeritus coupled with the enthusiasm that Pope Francis has generated means that the large volume of mass goers are a solid foundation for future growth.

    You have a point about long and mostly positive; but the negative was mostly in the late 19 th and 20 th century. The alliance of the RCC with the elite slit its own throat-an example is the way Roman Catholicism is blamed the industrial schools, etc rather than Irish Capitalism. How large are the volume of Mass goers? And more to the point how much do they believe basic Christian doctrine-no mind Catholic doctrine?

    Unlike people from the north where Im from I find that often Im a lot more "Catholic" than actual Catholics in the south.


  • #6
    Geomy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Is there one? If so how do you see it and what do you see that future's relation to both the Bible and historic Christianity?

    New age Christianity is the way to go :-)


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  • #7
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Geomy wrote: »
    New age Christianity is the way to go :-)

    What do you mean by New age Christianity? The sort of stuff that comes out of Glenstal Abbey?


  • #8
    Carpet diem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Carpet diem


    Future looks bleak imo.


  • #9
    Geomy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    What do you mean by New age Christianity? The sort of stuff that comes out of Glenstal Abbey?

    No the sort of stuff that comes out of Glastonbury ;-)


  • #10
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Geomy wrote: »
    No the sort of stuff that comes out of Glastonbury ;-)

    I dont understand. Personally I find the whole of the south west of England very mystical- but its a region that tends to attract eccentric but very interesting Orthodox, Roman Catholic traditionalist and Continuing Anglican mystical types who are anything but new age. Every time Ive been there I have into some very interesting conversations with believers. Let's face it though whatever about the past the Irish of today dont really do mysticism.


  • #11
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8380511.stm


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  • #12
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,796 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8380511.stm
    Interesting link. But implausible. From my academic understanding of the Meditarian trading patterns, there were links between the Levant and what were called the Tin Isles, but these would have been commercial and based on the market in ores between the various coastal communities. During the unrecorded years, many ideas can be put forward, but if there were travels it would be more likely along the existing routes, to Eygpt, modern day Turkey or else east to the Parthians.


  • #13
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Manach wrote: »
    Interesting link. But implausible. From my academic understanding of the Meditarian trading patterns, there were links between the Levant and what were called the Tin Isles, but these would have been commercial and based on the market in ores between the various coastal communities. During the unrecorded years, many ideas can be put forward, but if there were travels it would be more likely along the existing routes, to Eygpt, modern day Turkey or else east to the Parthians.

    Im not so sure; the legends are very ancient.

    Have you looked into Bob Quinn's research?

    http://journalofmusic.com/focus/atlantean-irish-irish-musics-north-african-connections

    http://conamara.org/index.php?page=atlantean


  • #14
    Geomy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    Here's an Irish mystic, John Moriarty from Kerry.
    He died there a few year's ago, I read most of his books.
    They're inaccessible in some chapters but very insightful

    http://wordkern.wordpress.com/2013/05/24/john-moriarty/

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=hcyoEV0OVRY


  • #15
    apple5s
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭apple5s


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Is there one? If so how do you see it and what do you see that future's relation to both the Bible and historic Christianity?

    The Bible is a part of Christianity. I don't understand what you mean by in relation to?

    Christianity is growing again in Ireland. The influx of 150,000 poles has obviously helped. Dominicans, Franciscans are growing, There is an increase in entries to diocesan seminaries. Opus Dei now has several centres around Ireland. People are beginning to question their faith and it either means they turn away or the examine more their faith.

    Money, Jobs etc... Don't provide answers to the most essential questions in life. Unlike the protestant church and they polyester labels for newcomers. The Catholic Church has turned a corner.


  • #16
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Is there one? If so how do you see it and what do you see that future's relation to both the Bible and historic Christianity?

    the future's here and It's already happening - more "catholics" will apostasize, following in the footsteps of the current teashock, claiming to to be practicing catholics in private but atheist or at best protestant when in public, some will switch to whatever form of protestantism allows then to keep their belief in God but allow them to continue to practice their favourite sins and the rest will fall away into agnosticism or cafe catholicism. There may well be some subscribers to the form of catholicism proposed by the likes of the ACP and other Church of Nice types who will become the public face of Irish catholicism.

    The remaining traditional Catholics will become part of the Counter Culture, shunning the Sodom and Gomorrah ways of modern Ireland ands will probably be persecuted, as those who currently speak out against abortion and gay marriage are.
    Whether the immigrant catholics remain traditional or adopt the cafe option remains to be seen. If what is currently happening in other English speaking Christian nations is anything to go by they will likely follow the same pattern and move away from anyone who teaches that Hell is real, and people\souls go there.

    Bibilically it looks like the Book of Revelation. Historically it looks like Rome under Caligula.


  • #17
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Festus wrote: »
    the future's here and It's already happening - more "catholics" will apostasize, following in the footsteps of the current teashock, claiming to to be practicing catholics in private but atheist or at best protestant when in public, some will switch to whatever form of protestantism allows then to keep their belief in God but allow them to continue to practice their favourite sins and the rest will fall away into agnosticism or cafe catholicism. There may well be some subscribers to the form of catholicism proposed by the likes of the ACP and other Church of Nice types who will become the public face of Irish catholicism.

    The remaining traditional Catholics will become part of the Counter Culture, shunning the Sodom and Gomorrah ways of modern Ireland ands will probably be persecuted, as those who currently speak out against abortion and gay marriage are.
    Whether the immigrant catholics remain traditional or adopt the cafe option remains to be seen. If what is currently happening in other English speaking Christian nations is anything to go by they will likely follow the same pattern and move away from anyone who teaches that Hell is real, and people\souls go there.

    Bibilically it looks like the Book of Revelation. Historically it looks like Rome under Caligula.

    I would argue that the traddies although a small minority are much stable. Its the liberal minded communities that seem to be dropping numbers more. Particularly in the states or continental Europe like France.


  • #18
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Festus wrote: »
    the future's here and It's already happening - more "catholics" will apostasize, following in the footsteps of the current teashock, claiming to to be practicing catholics in private but atheist or at best protestant when in public, some will switch to whatever form of protestantism allows then to keep their belief in God but allow them to continue to practice their favourite sins and the rest will fall away into agnosticism or cafe catholicism. There may well be some subscribers to the form of catholicism proposed by the likes of the ACP and other Church of Nice types who will become the public face of Irish catholicism.

    The remaining traditional Catholics will become part of the Counter Culture, shunning the Sodom and Gomorrah ways of modern Ireland ands will probably be persecuted, as those who currently speak out against abortion and gay marriage are.
    Whether the immigrant catholics remain traditional or adopt the cafe option remains to be seen. If what is currently happening in other English speaking Christian nations is anything to go by they will likely follow the same pattern and move away from anyone who teaches that Hell is real, and people\souls go there.

    Bibilically it looks like the Book of Revelation. Historically it looks like Rome under Caligula.
    Your world is a scary and horrible place. I feel sorry for you.

    MrP


  • #19
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Festus wrote: »
    the future's here and It's already happening - more "catholics" will apostasize, following in the footsteps of the current teashock, claiming to to be practicing catholics in private but atheist or at best protestant when in public, some will switch to whatever form of protestantism allows then to keep their belief in God but allow them to continue to practice their favourite sins and the rest will fall away into agnosticism or cafe catholicism. There may well be some subscribers to the form of catholicism proposed by the likes of the ACP and other Church of Nice types who will become the public face of Irish catholicism.

    The remaining traditional Catholics will become part of the Counter Culture, shunning the Sodom and Gomorrah ways of modern Ireland ands will probably be persecuted, as those who currently speak out against abortion and gay marriage are.
    Whether the immigrant catholics remain traditional or adopt the cafe option remains to be seen. If what is currently happening in other English speaking Christian nations is anything to go by they will likely follow the same pattern and move away from anyone who teaches that Hell is real, and people\souls go there.

    Bibilically it looks like the Book of Revelation. Historically it looks like Rome under Caligula.
    You seem to be confusing the future of Christianity in Ireland with the future of one church (Roman Catholicism).
    Festus wrote: »
    ... some (Roman Catholics) will switch to whatever form of protestantism allows then to keep their belief in God but allow them to continue to practice their favourite sins
    It has been my experience that Roman Catholic converts are people of utmost integrity ...
    ... indeed, could I suggest that if Roman Catholics wish to licence their sin ... they are likely to merely lapse into apostacy, rather than joining any other church.


  • #20
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Your world is a scary and horrible place. I feel sorry for you.

    MrP
    Please save your sorrow.

    The world is an amazing place ... sometimes good and sometimes bad ... as Human free-will is exercised ... and as God responds to the prayers of Christians ... and Christians spread His love to everyone who will accept it.


  • #21
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    J C wrote: »
    It has been my experience that Roman Catholic converts are people of utmost integrity ...
    ... indeed, could I suggest that if Roman Catholics wish to licence their sin ... they are likely to merely lapse into apostacy, rather than joining any other church.

    In my experience Irish Roman Catholics converts to Reformed Christianity fall into three catergories; those who came from nominally RC houses but never had the reality of God given to them and only really got to experience what the Gospel means through pious Protestants, those who came to Protestantism out of study and hard wrestling with theological issues- but there are also those who who went over (nearly always to the C of I) because they wanted a Church would have little or no problem with their worldliness.


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  • #22
    lmaopml
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    People are just people at the end of the day, no matter how brainy or dull or gifted or not gifted they judge themselves to be, they are merely people, like everybody else.

    Some will have a religious upbringing and will either pay regard to it or disregard it altogether in favor of the friends, times, people they live among etc. This isn't new - it's age old. Some will have a longing to know too much and look in all the wrong places.

    I think personally, that it's really important to be a Christian if you claim to be a follower - to live it, love it, and be the face of Christ in times of anguish and mourning and pain, and also in times of joy and celebration too, and also to be a 'friend' - nobody said the cross is easy, it isn't, but my goodness it's certainly the best road trip in life, that's for sure!

    It may sound 'daft' to pick up your cross and 'live' not only on the surface, but in the heart of your life - and there are so many people who are heroes of this venture.

    I think it's important to remember, and also most important to stress the need to 'know' Jesus. Not just the childhood understanding but the adult who can discern the parables, who can not only read, but read, then think, then pray, and than receive in contemplation the word of God. So many are stuck in their childhood..

    This is called Lectio Divina, it's praying Scripture, it's very very old and very beautiful to start to master.


  • #23
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »
    Please save your sorrow.

    The world is an amazing place ... sometimes good and sometimes bad ... as Human free-will is exercised ... and as God responds to the prayers of Christians ... and Christians spread His love to everyone who will accept it.
    You pray for me, I pity you. Seems fair to me.

    MrP


  • #24
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    You pray for me, I pity you. Seems fair to me.

    MrP
    Of course I will pray for you Mr P.
    ... but I don't need your pity ... the total cost of my Christian love for you ... is no charge!!!:)

    ... now where is Dolly Parton ... when I need her?:)


  • #25
    georgesstreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭georgesstreet


    J C wrote: »
    Please save your sorrow.

    . and as God responds to the prayers of Christians ... and Christians spread His love to everyone who will accept it.

    I think all the children raped and tortuted by priests have already had enough of his "love".

    I find this sort of one sided "god is love" attitude completely ignores history, where god told one tribe to massacre and kill another tribe and so and so on, to be completely devoid of any balance. Or how about all those christians put to death in the name of god for the "crime" of owning a bible? I could go ona nd on with many more examples.

    What evidence, after reading the bible, leads you to conclude god is a god of love? Certainly its what the church want you to believe now ( after centurys of murdering anyone who disagreed with them, how can you trust what they say), but have you actually read the bible, all of it?


  • #26
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    georgesstreet wrote: »
    I think all the children raped and tortuted by priests have already had enough of his "love".

    I find this sort of one sided "god is love" attitude completely ignores history, where god told one tribe to massacre and kill another tribe and so and so on, to be completely devoid of any balance. Or how about all those christians put to death in the name of god for the "crime" of owning a bible? I could go ona nd on with many more examples.

    What evidence, after reading the bible, leads you to conclude god is a god of love? Certainly its what the church want you to believe now ( after centurys of murdering anyone who disagreed with them, how can you trust what they say), but have you actually read the bible, all of it?

    Mod note: Let's keep this thread dedicated to discussing the future of Christianity in Ireland, please. The atheism/existence of God megathread is here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056276998


  • #27
    georgesstreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭georgesstreet


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    Mod note: Let's keep this thread dedicated to discussing the future of Christianity in Ireland, please. The atheism/existence of God megathread is here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056276998


    Sure. Are you saying we are not allowed challenge anyone who claims christianity is all about "love" in this thread?


  • #28
    Geomy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    georgesstreet wrote: »
    Sure. Are you saying we are not allowed challenge anyone who claims christianity is all about "love" in this thread?

    Im also sceptical about the vengeful God of the Bible.
    Im more spiritual and newage, I don't believe in a vengeful and resentful God....

    That's Christianity is on the way out, some people go in an atheistic direction, other's become pagans or towards new age spirituality.

    You made a good point there, I can see what you mean. ..


  • #29
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    georgesstreet wrote: »
    Sure. Are you saying we are not allowed challenge anyone who claims christianity is all about "love" in this thread?

    My remark wasn't solely directed at you. The topic of the thread is I'm the title, so let's try and avoid it being derailed by issues which are catered for in the megathreads.


  • #30
    georgesstreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭georgesstreet


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    My remark wasn't solely directed at you. The topic of the thread is I'm the title, so let's try and avoid it being derailed by issues which are catered for in the megathreads.

    I completely understand about derailing the thread and take your point. However, if someone makes a claim which is open to dispute in this thread, maybe it needs to be challenged.

    As to the future of christianity in Ireland, perhaps the most hopeful sign is that the church is being marginalised, and if anything individuals are thinking for themselves and not just taking what the priests want to spoon feed them. That's the best progress we can hope for and bodes well for the future.


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  • #31
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    georgesstreet wrote: »
    I completely understand about derailing the thread and take your point. However, if someone makes a claim which is open to dispute in this thread, maybe it needs to be challenged.

    As to the future of christianity in Ireland, perhaps the most hopeful sign is that the church is being marginalised, and if anything individuals are thinking for themselves and not just taking what the priests want to spoon feed them. That's the best progress we can hope for and bodes well for the future.
    Saved Christians have always thought for themselves ... so nothing has changed there.
    I take your point that some churches are more marginalised than they used to be ... but I think that Christianity still has a lot going for it in Ireland ... starting with the inspiration provided by the Holy Spirit ... and the dedication and loving example of the many good Christians who live the Gospel daily throughout this island.


  • #32
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    I've had to delete a number of posts. Don't derail the thread, if those responsible persist in doing so, cards will be issued. Fair warning.

    Edit: The posts in question are now on the Atheism/Existence of God megathread,


  • #33
    georgesstreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭georgesstreet


    J C wrote: »
    Saved Christians have always thought for themselves ... so nothing has changed there.
    I take your point that some churches are more marginalised than they used to be ... but I think that Christianity still has a lot going for it in Ireland ... starting with the inspiration provided by the Holy Spirit ... and the dedication and loving example of the many good Christians who live the Gospel daily throughout this island.

    More and more people in Ireland see through the claim that the only way to salvation is through christianity. If you happen to be born into a muslim household, or a hindu one, there is no hope for you as only christians can be saved. They see that the christian god condemns the whole continent of India, for example, for being born into the wrong religion. A loving god who condemns almost the whole continent for the crime of being born into the wrong religion. How can that be love?

    Ireland is mostly now living in a post christian era, and there is no reason to suppose that is going to change. There will always be some christians but as the country gets more and more educated, its reasonable to assume less and less will believe that they have to love a god while at the same time fear him, on pain of his punishment, for not loving him. You call that a loving god, others may differ and conclude that its not possible to consider god loving, when he orders you to love him on pain of terrible punishment if you don't.

    More and more are coming to realise that's not love, and consider those who believe it slaves and masochists forced to love someone they fear, ("If you don't love me and do as I say I am going to punish you" is the definition of masochism, and those who accept it, slaves). You have said as much yourself that if you don't love god the eternal and terrible punishment he will inflict on you is you will not be saved.

    What that means for the future of christianity in Ireland is that it's likely the trend of christianity shrinking will continue.


  • #34
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    georgesstreet wrote: »
    More and more people in Ireland see through the claim that the only way to salvation is through christianity. If you happen to be born into a muslim household, or a hindu one, there is no hope for you as only christians can be saved.

    This is what the Bible tells us. Jesus is God's only son, no other faith can claim that they have a stronger basis to being the way to heaven.
    They see that the christian god condemns the whole continent of India, for example, for being born into the wrong religion. A loving god who condemns almost the whole continent for the crime of being born into the wrong religion. How can that be love?

    Nobody is born into a religion. Christians are not born into Christianity. People are born into a culture which promotes the religion of their family/peers. God does not condemn anyone, it is we who condemn ourselves. There are many faiths in India, just as there are in Ireland, and Christianity is one of them. Why do you think Christians send missionaries and evangelists to these countries. Elsewhere we have discussed what happens to those who never hear the word of God and how they are judged.
    Ireland is mostly now living in a post christian era, and there is no reason to suppose that is going to change. There will always be some christians but as the country gets more and more educated, its reasonable to assume less and less will believe that they have to love a god while at the same time fear him

    Thats insulting to Christians - you imply that only uneducated people are Christians - rubbish!
    You have said as much yourself that if you don't love god the eternal and terrible punishment he will inflict on you is you will not be saved.

    God does not "inflict punishment" on us if we dont love him, we inflict it on ourselves. God is perfect in every way, its our understanding which is imperfect. Being perfect, no imperfection can come before him. To become perfect we must accept his grace and seek his forgiveness and follow him. God shows his love for us by giving us free will to choose to love him or not. Someone who loves you would never enslave you - they let you free in the hope/knowledge that you will return.

    You dont seem to have given the concepts of faith, grace, love and salvation much thought


  • #35
    georgesstreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭georgesstreet


    homer911 wrote: »
    God does not condemn anyone,

    I am afraid you are simply wrong. If you don’t love him, then he will punish you.
    homer911 wrote: »

    Thats insulting to Christians - you imply that only uneducated people are Christians - rubbish!

    I neither said nor imply what you claim. It is a fact that as people in Ireland become more educated they turn away from the fantastical claims of religion.
    homer911 wrote: »
    God does not "inflict punishment" on us if we dont love him, we inflict it on ourselves.

    So where is the problem then? Why do we have to believe in god if he is not going to punish us for the “crime” of not believing in him?

    Your words are interesting because what you mean is not that we inflict it on ourselves literally, but that god does the actual inflicting bit, and that we bring his inflicting “on ourselves” by choosing to not, or not being able, to believe in him.
    homer911 wrote: »

    God is perfect in every way, its our understanding which is imperfect. Being perfect, no imperfection can come before him. To become perfect we must accept his grace and seek his forgiveness and follow him. God shows his love for us by giving us free will to choose to love him or not. Someone who loves you would never enslave you - they let you free in the hope/knowledge that you will return.

    Unfortunately fewer and fewer of Irish people believe what you choose to believe, which is why the future of Christianity in Ireland is likely to be that its influence shrinks.
    homer911 wrote: »
    You dont seem to have given the concepts of faith, grace, love and salvation much thought

    This is about the future of Christianity in Ireland and not about your thoughts about me, and not about me.


  • #36
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    georgesstreet wrote: »
    More and more are coming to realise that's not love, and consider those who believe it slaves and masochists forced to love someone they fear, ("If you don't love me and do as I say I am going to punish you" is the definition of masochism, and those who accept it, slaves). You have said as much yourself that if you don't love god the eternal and terrible punishment he will inflict on you is you will not be saved.

    Mod note: You've been repeatedly warned about derailing this discussion. Don't post on this thread again.


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  • #37
    Morbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Morbert


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Is there one? If so how do you see it and what do you see that future's relation to both the Bible and historic Christianity?

    I have a feeling Christianity will be around for a long time in Ireland, but its tenets and meaning may change. I see it going the same way Christianity in the U.K and central Europe has gone.


  • #38
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    georgesstreet wrote: »
    I am afraid you are simply wrong. If you don’t love him, then he will punish you.

    Who do you know that punishes someone because they dont love them?

    If I love a girl and she rejects my love should I punish her? What you are suggesting is illogical, and despite wht you might think, God is anything but illogical

    I neither said nor imply what you claim. It is a fact that as people in Ireland become more educated they turn away from the fantastical claims of religion.

    You are on the Christianity forum and you are starting from a negative view. If you are not opening to considering the merit and truth of the Christian faith, what are yo doing here?
    So where is the problem then? Why do we have to believe in god if he is not going to punish us for the “crime” of not believing in him?

    Because despite us being horrible people who have rejected him, he, at his own cost, has given us a way to be forgiven, and enjoy eternal life in a place that will be far more wonderful than we could possibly imagine.
    Your words are interesting because what you mean is not that we inflict it on ourselves literally, but that god does the actual inflicting bit, and that we bring his inflicting “on ourselves” by choosing to not, or not being able, to believe in him.
    Close enough - the default future (after death) for all of us is Hell. As God is perfect, and no imperfection can come before him, he cant let those who dont love him into his presence. If we choose to love God, he forgives us and makes us acceptable in his sight through the gift of Grace and welcomes us into his home.
    Unfortunately fewer and fewer of Irish people believe what you choose to believe, which is why the future of Christianity in Ireland is likely to be that its influence shrinks.
    Fewer and fewer people in ireland are taught what I believe. The christian faith has been watered down to culture by priests and ministers who dont do the faith justice and may not understand it themselves - its no surprise that the wheat and chaff are starting to get separated


  • #39
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Morbert wrote: »
    I have a feeling Christianity will be around for a long time in Ireland, but its tenets and meaning may change. I see it going the same way Christianity in the U.K and central Europe has gone.

    Christianity is a lot stronger in Poland and Austria than in the 26 counties.

    I suppose Christianity is stronger in the north of Ireland but a lot of it is mixed in politics- if the north developed an actual civic society Im sure there are quite a few people who would get bored with it.


  • #40
    lmaopml
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    Morbert wrote: »
    I have a feeling Christianity will be around for a long time in Ireland, but its tenets and meaning may change. I see it going the same way Christianity in the U.K and central Europe has gone.

    Possibly, but I do hope not, because I think it would be a very big loss - but then we aren't fortune tellers. Christianity is more ancient than any person who predicts, and there have been so very many.

    I think about 'Christianity' in terms of my own life in some ways. I was brought up - inverted commas Christian, in a Christian home, I observed people who I believe were living their faith and unfortunately others who supposed that just calling themselves Christian made them so..However, I grew up, and I still love Christ!

    I have seen the very best, and I choose to focus on them - just like I love the 'faith' - and keeping it. It's so lovely!

    At the end of the day, that is all anybody can do - stay true, stay on the path, and most of all remember that the most important thing is to love sincerely and give thanks for those who love for free.

    Life is good, and people are more important than opinions. There are some things we can change and some things we can't - there is a wisdom about knowing the difference between them I think.

    At the end of the day, the only thing any single person is remembered for is how much love they 'gave', not how far they ran, not how brainy they are, not anything remotely like that, unless one is Einstein or Mozart - and THAT is a huge ask, especially if one is gifted - to leave an impression of 'giving' love to others is the most fulfilling way to live and most likely the very best epitaph. Want to live forever?

    Meh - start with love for free, and the rest will follow. Be risqué for real - see Christ on the Cross.


  • #41
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I wouldn't be in the same church every week, there is always a good mix of people in the churches I go to, young people, couples in their 20s and 30s and pensioners.


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