Putting an Arts degree down on CV

GeorgeAndPop · 25-02-2014 03:15AM #1

Never really sure how to handle it. The degree is 'Arts' but involves 2 subjects of no relation to each other. I ultimately got a 2.2 although my average was actually high enough for a 2.1 only the rules stipulated that your lowest subject must still meet a certain threshold, which it did not, but I am not applying for any jobs in that weaker subject. In fact I got a fraction of a percent away from a First in the stronger subject, the one I wish to pursue.

What should I put on my CV, and for the sake of job applications can I effectively disregard half of the degree... as in if they demand a 2.1 in my strong subject should I go ahead and apply?

Thanks

Starbordsie · 25-02-2014 04:04AM

GeorgeAndPop wrote: »

Never really sure how to handle it. The degree is 'Arts' but involves 2 subjects of no relation to each other. I ultimately got a 2.2 although my average was actually high enough for a 2.1 only the rules stipulated that your lowest subject must still meet a certain threshold, which it did not, but I am not applying for any jobs in that weaker subject. In fact I got a fraction of a percent away from a First in the stronger subject, the one I wish to pursue.

What should I put on my CV, and for the sake of job applications can I effectively disregard half of the degree... as in if they demand a 2.1 in my strong subject should I go ahead and apply?

Thanks

I think you will need to put down your overall result, as that is what your transcript will show if you are asked to produce one. But in your cover letter, you can expand and point out that you got a high result in the relevant subject.

playedalive · 25-02-2014 07:46AM

I put down my degree this way

Degree: Bachelor of Arts in X (major) and Y (minor)
Grade: Second Class Honours (breakdown:..?)

Maybe you could add a short breakdown onto your CV.

pow wow · 25-02-2014 07:51AM

Your degree classification is your degree classification unfortunately, whether you aced one subject and scraped through the other or not. You could list the modules if you wanted with the individual grades to illustrate where your strengths were, but this would take up a lot of room on your CV and tbh to a point employers probably wouldn't care.

Alternatively you could list the degree (eg. BA Hons Anthropology & Japanese 2:2) followed by 'Including' or 'Relevant Modules' and then list the important ones/ones more relevant to the roles you're applying for with the better grades. I have seen that occasionally on CVs when recruiting and I think it's a creative approach, thought I do always pay attention to the overall classification too.

Mr. Loverman · 25-02-2014 08:47AM

Don't overthink it.

Something like this:

EDUCATION

BA in English and Whatever (date is over here somewhere)
Trinity College Dublin, Ireland
* Received 79% in English
* Received 62% in Whatever
* Overall result second class honours

Fix the wording but something simple like that shows your English stuff was strong.

GeorgeAndPop · 25-02-2014 01:03PM

Thanks for the feedback. I still feel like putting 2.2 on my CV may hinder me, what about if I left the classification out of it and then if/when asked I would have the chance to explain the finer points of it? And should I still apply for positions asking for a 2.1 in the subject I almost got a 1.1 in?

If any prospective Arts students are reading this, word of advice: do not pick a second subject that you think will challenge or your look good on your CV. Pick the easiest one you can find

chris85 · 25-02-2014 01:09PM

GeorgeAndPop wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. I still feel like putting 2.2 on my CV may hinder me, what about if I left the classification out of it and then if/when asked I would have the chance to explain the finer points of it? And should I still apply for positions asking for a 2.1 in the subject I almost got a 1.1 in?

If any prospective Arts students are reading this, word of advice: do not pick a second subject that you think will challenge or your look good on your CV. Pick the easiest one you can find.

Grow up. College is there to challenge us all and not to just ride through on subjects that are easy. You got challenged by a subject and did't do well with it. Simple as.

GeorgeAndPop · 25-02-2014 01:21PM

chris85 wrote: »

Grow up. College is there to challenge us all and not to just ride through on subjects that are easy. You got challenged by a subject and did't do well with it. Simple as.

Thanks for repeating the point I made pretty clear in this thread buddy

if I'd just chosen one of the doss subjects to accompany the one I wanted to do then there's a good chance I'd have a First or a very high 2.1

I've spoken to many friends who share the opinion, people who did a host of different degrees and were presented with optional modules, chose an interesting or challenging one and soon regretted not picking ones they were already comfortable in, especially when it comes to exam time and they have tons of different material to cover. Having a module you are able to ace without any effort can be a godsend at relieving some of that workload.

Pushing yourself and personal development and all that is great but when it comes down to it, getting >80% in a module is something to actually show employers. Obviously choosing a challenging subject that you go on to master is the ideal situation but a lot of people have trouble applying themselves to something they have no interest in or actively dislike, in my case I was actually somewhat forced to do this subject after what was essentially an admin error!

pow wow · 25-02-2014 01:33PM

GeorgeAndPop wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. I still feel like putting 2.2 on my CV may hinder me, what about if I left the classification out of it and then if/when asked I would have the chance to explain the finer points of it? And should I still apply for positions asking for a 2.1 in the subject I almost got a 1.1 in?

Leaving the classification off altogether implies you either never finished the degree or you didn't read your own CV before you sent it out - neither of which are good things if you're selling yourself as a capable graduate. You will most likely never get to explain your reasoning behind why you did it!

I don't see why you wouldn't apply for things that require a 2:1 in your better subject, just be prepared for the fact that you got a 2:2 overall to blow your application out of the water. Very often recruiters first job is to whittle down the vast number of applicants for a role, and they'll use any criteria, including a 2:2 when a 2:1 was specified, to do it.

GeorgeAndPop · 25-02-2014 01:46PM

pow wow wrote: »

I don't see why you wouldn't apply for things that require a 2:1 in your better subject, just be prepared for the fact that you got a 2:2 overall to blow your application out of the water. Very often recruiters first job is to whittle down the vast number of applicants for a role, and they'll use any criteria, including a 2:2 when a 2:1 was specified, to do it.

Well this is why I'm reluctant to be so up front. I don't think it's unfair to say that honesty isn't always the best policy when it comes to CVs. May as well get my foot in the door saying I have a 2.1 and if it comes down to it it's just a case of ah well, about that... and hope that you've done enough in the interview to compensate for it.

At the end of the day it is my own fault and it's most likely because of a poor work ethic that I ended up with that. I didn't even work hard in the subject I did really well in. But I'm supposed to be selling myself here, and I think just saying I got a 2.2 doesn't tell the whole story when I got 70% in the part of the degree that actually has relevance to the job. I did two relatively hard subjects thinking it would look better than one and one doss subject, I think that was massively naive of me when most employers aren't going to look any further than the overall classification. No wonder Arts is considered so useless when a candidate who did ok in IT and very good in Geography is preferred for an IT job over one who did exceptionally well in IT but poor in History.

noodler · 25-02-2014 02:01PM

Second class honours or just say honours?

Ray Palmer · 25-02-2014 03:28PM

Not being funny but arts degrees are not exactly what recruiters are looking for. No matter what way you word it the comparison with another CV will show that you are not forthcoming with your results.
I would spot it while reviewing CVs as it is something you learn to notice. Honesty is important and attempts to hide are noticeable.

My vote is put down the grade you got.

Jim2007 · 26-02-2014 10:18PM

GeorgeAndPop wrote: »

Well this is why I'm reluctant to be so up front. I don't think it's unfair to say that honesty isn't always the best policy when it comes to CVs. May as well get my foot in the door saying I have a 2.1 and if it comes down to it it's just a case of ah well, about that... and hope that you've done enough in the interview to compensate for it.

You cannot compensate for a lie! Once they catch you out, you are gone even if it is after you have started working there. The attitude is going to be if they caught you out on one lie, perhaps there are more...

sligoface · 27-02-2014 02:38PM

Tbh I had no idea that you need to put in specific results for each subject on your CV, my degree is in Fine Art though so I don't think it really matters as much since I am usually forced to apply for work in non-art related fields, there isn't really many waged/salary jobs for what I studied, and managers at the entry level jobs I often have to take probably are not concerned with how well I did in ceramics or life drawing.

Fwiw though, in my last job I was given a better position than the one I applied for because they had a vacancy to fill and they put me into it partly because I had a degree, even though it was unrelated. Plenty of good workers there couldn't be promoted simply because a degree (in any discipline) was required. So an arts degree is not totally worthless.

If you're putting down grades just put what you got, it doesn't sound like you did too bad and if asked about it say you took it because you thought it was interesting but found it challenging. The fact that you followed your interest and didn't give up when you found it hard going is a pretty positive thing, really.

Thargor · 27-02-2014 02:42PM

In my experience employers never look for your results they're way more interested in experience. Im in pharma and one of my first interviews I blurted out getting 2.1 in both my degrees as my greatest achievement to date, had a 2:2 in both, got the job no questions asked, my CV says I have 2:1s now and Ive been in a few positions since.

GeorgeAndPop · 27-02-2014 03:12PM

Jim2007 wrote: »

You cannot compensate for a lie! Once they catch you out, you are gone even if it is after you have started working there. The attitude is going to be if they caught you out on one lie, perhaps there are more...

It's not really lying though. If they're looking for a 2.1 in Subject A and I got a 2.2 in Subject A + B, but a 1.1 in Subject A then it's fair to say I'm a suitable candidate for the job in that regard.

And besides, if the alternative is to not bother applying at all then I'm not any better off...

srsly78 · 27-02-2014 03:16PM

Big companies do run checks on your background. Takes them ages tho, and is often outsourced. In last job my 6 month contract had ended by the time the checking process started!

So just because you got the job doesn't mean they won't get around to checking in the future. If you lied then expect to get fired.

Thargor · 27-02-2014 03:34PM

How would an outsourced company get around the data protection act and look at your education records?

srsly78 · 27-02-2014 03:35PM

Because one of the many forms you sign before working for a big company is the one that lets them run checks on you. You could always refuse to sign I suppose?

chris85 · 27-02-2014 03:59PM

GeorgeAndPop wrote: »

It's not really lying though. If they're looking for a 2.1 in Subject A and I got a 2.2 in Subject A + B, but a 1.1 in Subject A then it's fair to say I'm a suitable candidate for the job in that regard.

And besides, if the alternative is to not bother applying at all then I'm not any better off...

A degree is more than one subject and not only covers subject area but the skills obtained while doing all subjects. Kind of like a football league. If you come last in the league but finish by getting a win over the eventual winners doesnt mean you are better than them.

To be honest, all for people getting themselves a foot in the door but this is not the way and hope you get caught and backfires on you. Lack of respect for the degree you have if you have to do this.

dixiefly · 27-02-2014 05:09PM

Thargor wrote: »

In my experience employers never look for your results they're way more interested in experience. Im in pharma and one of my first interviews I blurted out getting 2.1 in both my degrees as my greatest achievement to date, had a 2:2 in both, got the job no questions asked, my CV says I have 2:1s now and Ive been in a few positions since.

While I agree with your assertion that experience is way more important than the difference between a 2.1 and a 2.2 and that importance gets greater as your experience gets greater I would not agree with someone conveniently leaving the incorrect grade on their cv. I am sure this is happening in many cases but is unfair on the honest people in competition for the same jobs.

Starbordsie · 27-02-2014 05:32PM

Thargor wrote: »

In my experience employers never look for your results they're way more interested in experience. Im in pharma and one of my first interviews I blurted out getting 2.1 in both my degrees as my greatest achievement to date, had a 2:2 in both, got the job no questions asked, my CV says I have 2:1s now and Ive been in a few positions since.

OP, please please don't do this.

For graduate jobs in particular, or even some entry-level positions, it is very likely you'll be asked to produce a transcript, either at the interview or offer stage. I know for my first graduate role, I had to bring my transcript along to the interview. And we were only told at the interview notification stage that we would be required to, so anyone who lied on their application and was then offered an interview would have been screwed.

starlit · 27-02-2014 05:58PM

playedalive wrote: »

I put down my degree this way

Degree: Bachelor of Arts in X (major) and Y (minor)
Grade: Second Class Honours (breakdown:..?)

Maybe you could add a short breakdown onto your CV.

I would suggest to put It down this way as well. You probably need to mention what kind of award you got. You don't necessary have to state its a 2:2 just add in Second class honours if you feel more comfortable with that but you were awarded x degree so best to state it as that is the Arts degree you have despite two different subjects but break it down as playedalive posted. Maybe add in results for both or overall results if you feel to need to do that.

In a CV you don't necessary have to put in 2:2 etc unless its maybe a recent qualification maybe but should be grand to just put in Second Class Honours. Unless they specifically require it in your application sometimes online application forms might ask you for overall results, even full breakdown or either overall gpa grade or you got 2:2 so be aware of that. Otherwise just state the major and add in your overall result from that If you rather add that in but still mention what your actual degree is.

Best of luck!

CatFromHue · 28-02-2014 12:33AM

On my CV I just have my degree, the year I graduated, and the university/IT I graduated from. I don't have my graduating degree class down and I've never been asked what it was either.

Ray Palmer · 28-02-2014 12:48PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

On my CV I just have my degree, the year I graduated, and the university/IT I graduated from. I don't have my graduating degree class down and I've never been asked what it was either.

Yes you can do that. And when competition is tight they will throw your CV out for not being detailed. I have done this with CVs just a quick way to process them.
I have thrown CVs in the bin for being folded the wrong way too. I think people really don't get how little time people have to review CVs at certain times.

Teyla Emmagan · 28-02-2014 01:37PM

GeorgeAndPop wrote: »

Thanks for repeating the point I made pretty clear in this thread buddy if I'd just chosen one of the doss subjects to accompany the one I wanted to do then there's a good chance I'd have a First or a very high 2.1

I've spoken to many friends who share the opinion, people who did a host of different degrees and were presented with optional modules, chose an interesting or challenging one and soon regretted not picking ones they were already comfortable in, especially when it comes to exam time and they have tons of different material to cover. Having a module you are able to ace without any effort can be a godsend at relieving some of that workload.

Pushing yourself and personal development and all that is great but when it comes down to it, getting >80% in a module is something to actually show employers. Obviously choosing a challenging subject that you go on to master is the ideal situation but a lot of people have trouble applying themselves to something they have no interest in or actively dislike, in my case I was actually somewhat forced to do this subject after what was essentially an admin error!

This is pathetic. And also, do you not think employers will not suss that out, instantly? Oh look at X, they did maths, which they did well in, and clearly like, and then instead of complementing that with physics, or whatever, they chose Greek & Roman Archeology.

I would instantly dismiss that as being the academic choices of a waster.

username123 · 28-02-2014 01:55PM

pow wow wrote: »

Leaving the classification off altogether implies you either never finished the degree or you didn't read your own CV before you sent it out - neither of which are good things if you're selling yourself as a capable graduate. You will most likely never get to explain your reasoning behind why you did it!

I don't have the grade for any of my degrees on my CV! I never did.

I have them listed as:
BSc (Hons) in Subject (minor/major)
MSc in Subject
Etc....

sligoface · 28-02-2014 02:31PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes you can do that. And when competition is tight they will throw your CV out for not being detailed. I have done this with CVs just a quick way to process them.
I have thrown CVs in the bin for being folded the wrong way too. I think people really don't get how little time people have to review CVs at certain times.

Just because you do sh¡te like this doesn't mean it is what all recruiters do, my college marks have never come up in an interview I was on, and another poster said the same. We get it, you enjoy your little power trip, and take pleasure in throwing out CVs and rejecting applicants on a whim, because you are such a busy important man. Well done.

username123 · 28-02-2014 02:36PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes you can do that. And when competition is tight they will throw your CV out for not being detailed. I have done this with CVs just a quick way to process them.
I have thrown CVs in the bin for being folded the wrong way too. I think people really don't get how little time people have to review CVs at certain times.

Id rather not get offered an interview by someone with this kind of mindset tbh.

sligoface · 28-02-2014 02:39PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

This is pathetic. And also, do you not think employers will not suss that out, instantly? Oh look at X, they did maths, which they did well in, and clearly like, and then instead of complementing that with physics, or whatever, they chose Greek & Roman Archeology.

I would instantly dismiss that as being the academic choices of a waster.

Totally. Those Greeks and Romans hardly did anything important, sure they were all wasters as well, building useless things like the Parthenon and those bloody aqueducts.

srsly78 · 28-02-2014 02:42PM

Gotta love having an arts degree in

maths or physics

Only noob universities give out BSc degrees

Crazyteacher · 28-02-2014 03:29PM

srsly78 wrote: »

Gotta love having an arts degree in
maths or physics

Only noob universities give out BSc degrees

I put down BA Hons in my two subjects . I got a first but I don't think it's necessary to put it down, it's makes no difference .

Mr. Loverman · 28-02-2014 04:15PM

srsly78 wrote: »

Gotta love having an arts degree in
maths or physics

Only noob universities give out BSc degrees

I know you're half joking, but my B.Sc in maths and computer science is from Trinity.

Teyla Emmagan · 28-02-2014 05:11PM

sligoface wrote: »

Totally. Those Greeks and Romans hardly did anything important, sure they were all wasters as well, building useless things like the Parthenon and those bloody aqueducts.

Greek and Roman Archaeology was always legendary as being the easiest course in UCD Arts to pass. What the OP would call a 'doss' course then.

srsly78 · 28-02-2014 05:17PM

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I know you're half joking, but my B.Sc in maths and computer science is from Trinity.

Is the TSM different? Computer science on it's own is a BA Mod, as are most other single honour degrees there.

Starbordsie · 28-02-2014 06:09PM

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I know you're half joking, but my B.Sc in maths and computer science is from Trinity.

srsly78 wrote: »

Is the TSM different? Computer science on it's own is a BA Mod, as are most other single honour degrees there.

My Trinity science degree is a BA. AFAIK, there's two comp sci courses in Trinity for some reason, one is BA, one is BSc. Trinity mostly awards BAs though.

TimeToShine · 28-02-2014 07:29PM

Thargor wrote: »

In my experience employers never look for your results they're way more interested in experience. Im in pharma and one of my first interviews I blurted out getting 2.1 in both my degrees as my greatest achievement to date, had a 2:2 in both, got the job no questions asked, my CV says I have 2:1s now and Ive been in a few positions since.

This unfortunately, there are a lot of people flat out lying on their CV and getting away with it as long as you know your stuff in the interview and don't give them good reason to question your credentials. Whether or not I agree with it is a different matter but the matter of the fact is it can and is being done.

SparkySpitfire · 01-03-2014 07:24PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Greek and Roman Archaeology was always legendary as being the easiest course in UCD Arts to pass. What the OP would call a 'doss' course then.

Funny, seeing as there is no Greek and Roman Archaeology.

There is however Greek and Roman Civilisation. I find your tone insulting and would suggest that before you pass off what can be an extremely stimulating subject as a "doss", you actually gain some information about or experience of it.

Any course can be easy to scrape a pass, but no one gets As by being a lazy degenerate.

Teyla Emmagan · 01-03-2014 07:59PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Funny, seeing as there is no Greek and Roman Archaeology.

There is however Greek and Roman Civilisation. I find your tone insulting and would suggest that before you pass off what can be an extremely stimulating subject as a "doss", you actually gain some information about or experience of it.

Any course can be easy to scrape a pass, but no one gets As by being a lazy degenerate.

The OP will be disappointed to hear that.

Terribly upset if you are insulted, mea culpa.

deedless · 01-03-2014 10:24PM

What are the thoughts on giving a percent rather than a class. I got 62%, which in some unis is a 2:1 but in others a 2:2. Spoofing or reasonable?

AltAccount · 01-03-2014 10:44PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Funny, seeing as there is no Greek and Roman Archaeology.

There is however Greek and Roman Civilisation. I find your tone insulting and would suggest that before you pass off what can be an extremely stimulating subject as a "doss", you actually gain some information about or experience of it.

Any course can be easy to scrape a pass, but no one gets As by being a lazy degenerate.

What proportion of students do that course because of a genuine interest in Greek and Roman Civilisation and how many because it's an "easy degree" from a decent university?

SparkySpitfire · 01-03-2014 10:48PM

AltAccount wrote: »

What proportion of students do that course because of a genuine interest in Greek and Roman Civilisation and how many because it's an "easy degree" from a decent university?

I have never heard of it being an "easy degree", and unless you've actually done it yourself you have no basis for that either.

Neither could either of us say what proportion do it because they THINK it might be easier than other subjects, if you wanted to find that out, you could try an anonymous survey. This seems quite a futile question?

Why should dossers in any college course bring down the integrity of the course itself and the people who work at it passionately? The answer is they shouldn't, but some people will choose to perceive it that way.

AltAccount · 01-03-2014 10:58PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

I have never heard of it being an "easy degree", and unless you've actually done it yourself you have no basis for that either.

Neither could either of us say what proportion do it because they THINK it might be easier than other subjects, if you wanted to find that out, you could try an anonymous survey. This seems quite a futile question?

Why should dossers in any college course bring down the integrity of the course itself and the people who work at it passionately? The answer is they shouldn't, but some people will choose to perceive it that way.

Never mind.

Op, don't lie on your CV, don't pad it, don't presume your interviewers are idiots if a 2.1 degree is a fundamental requirement, then that's what you gotta have.

Getting caught fluffing information could kill you stone dead in the interview. It's very risky.

Jim2007 · 01-03-2014 11:11PM

AltAccount wrote: »

What proportion of students do that course because of a genuine interest in Greek and Roman Civilisation and how many because it's an "easy degree" from a decent university?

Well if it was an easy degree, not up to the standard, then the university would loose it's standing and of course employers would be in the know as well...

The thing is that anyone who is really good at a subject can make it look easy! As you say it's it is not a very popular choice so I would expect most students taking it are very motivated and consequently the think it is easy

AltAccount · 01-03-2014 11:26PM

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well if it was an easy degree, not up to the standard, then the university would loose it's standing and of course employers would be in the know as well...

The thing is that anyone who is really good at a subject can make it look easy! As you say it's it is not a very popular choice so I would expect most students taking it are very motivated and consequently the think it is easy

I rescind my comment - my point is not well made and can't be clarified further without dragging the thread off topic. Apologies Op.

ormeau 1 · 02-03-2014 08:57PM

GeorgeAndPop wrote: »

Never really sure how to handle it. The degree is 'Arts' but involves 2 subjects of no relation to each other. I ultimately got a 2.2 although my average was actually high enough for a 2.1 only the rules stipulated that your lowest subject must still meet a certain threshold, which it did not, but I am not applying for any jobs in that weaker subject. In fact I got a fraction of a percent away from a First in the stronger subject, the one I wish to pursue.

What should I put on my CV, and for the sake of job applications can I effectively disregard half of the degree... as in if they demand a 2.1 in my strong subject should I go ahead and apply?

Thanks

I don't like that term 'Arts' degree. It could mean you studied 1 or 2 of many things and it shouldn't be used as a means to deprecate it's worth. I think an arts degree goes a lot further in countries where there is a lot of economic activity.
There's a general contempt for 'Arts' degrees in Ireland but I think that's down to the general state of the country. I was having a look st Irish Supreme Court Judges backgrounds and some studied Arts degrees before they went on to become lawyers and then judges.
An arts degree is like any other degree, it's not a guarantee of anything, but evidence of ability and a means to an end. It's not 'worthless'.

Putting an Arts degree down on CV

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