Calf coming backwards

Reggie. · 29-04-2015 7:57pm #1

Talking to FIL and apparently a cow calved in the middle of the night. It was coming backwards and he reckoned it was already dead and jacked it out.

Big bull calf. I was saying to him that he should have left it in once he figured it was backwards send rang the vet for a section.

What would ye have done as we suspect there are more coming that way

whelan2 · 29-04-2015 8:02pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Talking to FIL and apparently a cow calved in the middle of the night. It was coming backwards and he reckoned it was already dead and jacked it out.

Big bull calf. I was saying to him that he should have left it in once he figured it was backwards send rang the vet for a section.

What would ye have done as we suspect there are more coming that way

normally jack it out, take it slowly to allow cow to open up , as soon as calf comes out hang over gate to get fluid out of lungs

greysides · 29-04-2015 8:07pm

Backward calvings are normal, about 5% IIRC. No need for a caesarian per se, normal criteria apply.

Hang them for a minute afterwards, check navel is broken ok and take out with a flatter arch than for a forwards calving (i.e. don't drop the jack too soon- break ribs).

Make sure tail is coming with legs (sounds funny but it's important).

While still on jack put head on jack on ground and rachet then up.

Calves can be a bit softer as it takes the cow longer to open that way around so extra TLC.

If small, check for twin. If normal sized, check for twin.

degetme · 29-04-2015 8:10pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Talking to FIL and apparently a cow calved in the middle of the night. It was coming backwards and he reckoned it was already dead and jacked it out.

Big bull calf. I was saying to him that he should have left it in once he figured it was backwards send rang the vet for a section.

What would ye have done as we suspect there are more coming that way

jack fast at a horizontal level after the hips are out

whelan2 · 29-04-2015 8:12pm

theres normal backwards and then upside down backwards, i would get vet if upside down backwards

Kovu · 29-04-2015 8:13pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Talking to FIL and apparently a cow calved in the middle of the night. It was coming backwards and he reckoned it was already dead and jacked it out.

Big bull calf. I was saying to him that he should have left it in once he figured it was backwards send rang the vet for a section.

What would ye have done as we suspect there are more coming that way

A vet wouldn't section if he could take it out the normal route. Normally try to do as G said above, have taken them without a jack as well but have to be certain it's small and the cow is wide to slip him easy after the hind hocks.
We don't hang them over the gate but a very vigorous scrub down with straw by yours truly for a few minutes does sorta the same job.
Harder on the cow too as it's going against the hair/not as streamlined.

Just out of curiosity, was the cow well fleshed?

Reggie. · 29-04-2015 8:13pm

I believe he got stuck half way on him. Took him an half hour to get him out

greysides · 29-04-2015 8:19pm

Reggie. wrote: »

I believe he got stuck half way on him. Took him an half hour to get him out

Roll cow onto back and continue pull. It may gain a little leeway.

(Abracadabra.... and cow is on back, just like that. Not!)

Reggie. · 29-04-2015 8:20pm

greysides wrote: »

Roll cow onto back and continue pull. It may gain a little leeway.

(Abracadabra.... and cow is on back, just like that. Not!)

Wouldn't say that would ever happen with the FIL to be honest. He wouldn't be one for manoeuvres like thst

doyleshill · 29-04-2015 8:34pm

Had two calving coming backwards in the last two years, Got vet both times.First calf lived for a few minutes,coundn't revive him .The second died on the way out. The first cow had a normal calving this year. Its just another one of these farming experiences .

High bike · 29-04-2015 8:49pm

Had one last year,got vet and he sectioned her straight away big lim bull all went well but expensive job.cow called herself this year no prob

Genghis Cant · 29-04-2015 8:51pm

greysides wrote: »

Roll cow onto back and continue pull. It may gain a little leeway.

(Abracadabra.... and cow is on back, just like that. Not!)

It's not that handy to roll 800kgs of cow......... On your own........ In the middle of the night:)

But it's a great job if ya can do it and leave a man on the jack. He'll keep on a little pressure and feel the exact moment when the calf starts coming!

Calves coming backwards are rarely handy, I've seen it goin both ways.

tanko · 29-04-2015 8:59pm

The important thing about a calf coming backways is to realise that it's happening because the cow is never going to calve herself and if she's left too long the calf is fecked anyway.

Mad4simmental · 29-04-2015 9:13pm

One set of twins and two singles backwards this year at home. All alive and grand tank god luck of the draw. But as said above the biggest thing is time. If I see Notting presenting or suspect I'll handle to see if it's backwards or all good.

Iv noticed this year at home and in work that allot of the ones presenting backwards seem to stand with a much bigger arched back. They just look awkward iykwim. It might just be a coincidence, but Sum thing I'll be keeping an eye out for next year.

Our vet was saying that there is allot of backwards calves, twins, and big calves this year perhaps such a good year for grass has made things like this pop up.

Reggie. · 29-04-2015 9:42pm

Would having the cows out on grass cause it?

Genghis Cant · 29-04-2015 9:44pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Would having the cows out on grass cause it?

No.

tanko · 29-04-2015 9:49pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Would having the cows out on grass cause it?

I think out wintered cows are less likely to do it. Thirty calvings here every year and on average one or two come backways every year. Most cows kept in until they calve.
I've no idea what causes it.

Kovu · 29-04-2015 9:52pm

tanko wrote: »

I've no idea what causes it.

Our vet has a theory that over fleshed cows don't allow the calf to turn when he's so big at full term.

Bullocks · 29-04-2015 10:02pm

Kovu wrote: »

Our vet has a theory that over fleshed cows don't allow the calf to turn when he's so big at full term.

Fat cows aren't a help at calving but all the same I think breach births are mostly a part of nature .
Feck you Mad4simmental, I was looking at a small black cow this evening that's carrying a bit like you described and now I'll be paranoid about her calving !

tanko · 29-04-2015 10:13pm

Kovu wrote: »

Our vet has a theory that over fleshed cows don't allow the calf to turn when he's so big at full term.

The thinnest black limo cow I have which had twins last year (both came backways) had a small Sim heifer calf last week which came backways too. Come to think of it she had a limo bull which came backways five years ago too.
Maybe it's genetic

Reggie. · 29-04-2015 10:29pm

tanko wrote: »

The thinnest black limo cow I have which had twins last year (both came backways) had a small Sim heifer calf last week which came backways too. Come to think of it she had a limo bull which came backways five years ago too.
Maybe it's genetic

We had none that came backwards last year

whelan2 · 30-04-2015 4:46am

its just the luck of the draw, dont think there's anything you can do to prevent it, have noticed calves born at this time of year are alot bigger than the ones born earlier in spring

Milton09 · 30-04-2015 7:06am

Reggie. wrote: »

I believe he got stuck half way on him. Took him an half hour to get him out

I think this is the reason a lot of backward calf's die, once half way out the calf cannot breath in the same way as if coming forward and half way out, especially a problem if the navel is broken, as a previous poster said jack fast after hips as time is limited

Reggie. · 30-04-2015 7:08am

Milton09 wrote: »

I think this is the reason a lot of backward calf's die, once half way out the calf cannot breath in the same way as if coming forward and half way out, especially a problem if the navel is broken, as a previous poster said jack fast after hips as time is limited

Was thinking that myself milton

onyerbikepat · 30-04-2015 7:41am

Had a calf come backwards a few weeks back. A big LGL (Charolais) bull. A 3 year old Seep Tee Jay cow and her second calf. I couldn't believe how big the and open the cow was inside, but she just couldn't push him out. He came handy enough with just the ropes.
Last one I had was with a big Charoalis bull calf too. It seems to be in caes where the calf just can't turn around right inside the cow, because it's either too big, the cow is too fat or a combination of both.
I didn't know you should hang the calf afterwards. That's new to me.

Genghis Cant · 30-04-2015 9:40am

onyerbikepat wrote: »

H
I didn't know you should hang the calf afterwards. That's new to me.

The normal route would allow a calves airway etc to drain as the calf is being born, I'd think to a greater extent than a breach calf.
I'd certainly try and hang a backwards calf. It's not simple though with maybe 60 or 70 kgs of a big bull calf!

greysides · 30-04-2015 12:56pm

Hanging a calf doesn't actually need to be 'hanging'. All that's needed is the lungs above nose so dragging the calf over it's recumbent mother or grabbing it around the waist and lifting is sufficient. Even grabbing the hindlegs and lifting the chest, but not the head/neck, off the ground is going to help.

tanko · 30-04-2015 1:09pm

greysides wrote: »

Hanging a calf doesn't actually need to be 'hanging'. All that's needed is the lungs above nose so dragging the calf over it's recumbent mother or grabbing it around the waist and lifting is sufficient. Even grabbing the hindlegs and lifting the chest, but not the head/neck, off the ground is going to help.

Sometimes I think more harm than good is done to calves by lads trying to drag them across gates to "hang them up".
Do you know at what stage in pregnancy it is decided that a calf will come backways or come normally?

Parishlad · 30-04-2015 4:10pm

tanko wrote: »

Sometimes I think more harm than good is done to calves by lads trying to drag them across gates to "hang them up".

Agree....i leave an empty steel barrel outside the shed and if needed can bring it in and drape the calf over it.... not trying to lift what is invariably a heavy calf up high and also I'd say easier on a new born calf than being hung from a gate.

High bike · 30-04-2015 8:57pm

Parishlad wrote: »

Agree....i leave an empty steel barrel outside the shed and if needed can bring it in and drape the calf over it.... not trying to lift what is invariably a heavy calf up high and also I'd say easier on a new born calf than being hung from a gate.

sounds like a good idea to me

dohc turbo2 · 30-04-2015 9:40pm

Was told in Ag college never to hang a calf as all the inner organs puts Fierce pressure on the heart and could actually go against it ,

Reggie. · 30-04-2015 9:50pm

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Was told in Ag college never to hang a calf as all the inner organs puts Fierce pressure on the heart and could actually go against it ,

Makes sense

The man in red and black · 02-05-2015 2:02am

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Was told in Ag college never to hang a calf as all the inner organs puts Fierce pressure on the heart and could actually go against it ,

Animal Health Ireland have it in their notes that it is ok to hang or raise a calfs hind end but the trick is that it should be only for 30-60 seconds and never to swing a calf as I have seen in the past. Where people go wrong is hanging a calf off of a gate for 1-5minutes or swinging them back and forth. That IS too much pressure on the diaphragm for too long.

Calf coming backwards

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