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pumped cavity cost and what's best

  • 22-08-2015 10:10PM
    #1
    mcneil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 332 ✭✭


    My home was built between 2004-2007 and 99% sure my cavity was 100mm with 50mm aeroboard which leaves a 50mm void.

    Im wanting to know can this be filled with bead insulation and if so, is there a meterx50mm price available or does it sell by the cubic meter?

    If it can be filled, what type of bead is the best on tge market and is it worth the money spent or is there others that have the same rating but can be got cheaper.

    My house has large windows on front and medium on back so hopefully it aint to expensive and can be done in time for the winter and hopefully upgrade to exterior insulation in a few years.


Comments

  • #2
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Have you had your house tested for airtightness?
    If not, do this first before wasting spending your money on cavity fill.


  • #3
    mcneil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 332 ✭✭mcneil


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Have you had your house tested for airtightness?
    If not, do this first before wasting spending your money on cavity fill.


    How is filling the cavity with more insulation wasting money. Yes I understand that air tightness is good for reducing heat loss but pumping the cavity will give me more insulation.


  • #4
    hexosan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Mick I'm not sure if the Irish mentality will ever accept the concept of Airtightness over insulation.


  • #5
    mcneil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 332 ✭✭mcneil


    hexosan wrote: »
    Mick I'm not sure if the Irish mentality will ever accept the concept of Airtightness over insulation.

    Airtightness has its own negatives which I don't sit well with. Another thing is, once you get these airtightness guys out, the next recommendations are get your insulation upgraded and install a heat recovery system in. I don't have the funds for all this.

    I've been in houses before and after new insulation has been installed and I'm quite happy with the results. As for us paddy's not quite grasping the difference in the 2 above, I know were thick but were not that thick to feel the difference in heat when one upgrades its insulation!


  • #6
    hexosan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭hexosan


    I'm one of those paddys and adding more insulation does not guarantee a warmer house if the house had poor Airtightness to start with.

    A house with standard insulation that's airtight will be warmer than a house with poor Airtightness and the world of insulation.

    You don't need to go for HRV systems in a retrofit you can install DCV instead.


    *** and on a side not there are plenty of thick paddys


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  • #7
    mcneil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 332 ✭✭mcneil


    hexosan wrote: »
    I'm one of those paddys and adding more insulation does not guarantee a warmer house if the house had poor Airtightness to start with.

    A house with standard insulation that's airtight will be warmer than a house with poor Airtightness and the world of insulation.

    You don't need to go for HRV systems in a retrofit you can install DCV instead.


    *** and on a side not there are plenty of thick paddys


    My thinking and this is going from experience in other peoples houses is that if I upgrade insulation and install a new stove in living room to burn coal and turf then my home will be warmer! That's all im looking.

    Its very difficult to get an 06 new build completely airtight since its already built so I would rather go for the insulation and stove. I don't mind spending the extra few quid if my home is more comfortable and less fuel costs(thou I get turf for free!)


  • #8
    mcneil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 332 ✭✭mcneil


    hexosan wrote: »
    I'm one of those paddys and adding more insulation does not guarantee a warmer house if the house had poor Airtightness to start with.

    A house with standard insulation that's airtight will be warmer than a house with poor Airtightness and the world of insulation.

    You don't need to go for HRV systems in a retrofit you can install DCV instead.


    *** and on a side not there are plenty of thick paddys

    What's the average costs for a dcv. My house is 2400sq ft with 15 rooms. To be fair, this is my first time even hearing about a dcv :(


  • #9
    EnergyBlaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭EnergyBlaster


    If you get your house Air Tight you may not need to get more insulation and an upgrade in your heating system. You will certainly have less fuel costs and your comfort level will go up due to less draft.


  • #10
    mcneil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 332 ✭✭mcneil


    EnergyBlaster wrote: »
    If you get your house Air Tight you may not need to get more insulation and an upgrade in your heating system. You will certainly have less fuel costs and your comfort level will go up due to less draft.

    The cost of getting my tiger new build air tight would be crazy I'd imagine and wouldn't have that kind of money I'm afraid.


  • #11
    EnergyBlaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭EnergyBlaster


    mcneil wrote: »
    The cost of getting my tiger new build air tight would be crazy I'd imagine and wouldn't have that kind of money I'm afraid.

    I'd imagine it depends on how air tight you requie.


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  • #12
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    mcneil wrote: »
    Airtightness has its own negatives which I don't sit well with. Another thing is, once you get these airtightness guys out, the next recommendations are get your insulation upgraded and install a heat recovery system in. I don't have the funds for all this.

    I've been in houses before and after new insulation has been installed and I'm quite happy with the results. As for us paddy's not quite grasping the difference in the 2 above, I know were thick but were not that thick to feel the difference in heat when one upgrades its insulation!
    EnergyBlaster wrote: »
    I'd imagine it depends on how air tight you requie.

    I think you should do some research into air-tightness

    If you insulated the hell out of your house but the air change rate is changing ten times per hour, you'll be heating a lot of air only to allow it piss out through air leakage


  • #13
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,179 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    mcneil wrote: »
    How is filling the cavity with more insulation wasting money. Yes I understand that air tightness is good for reducing heat loss but pumping the cavity will give me more insulation.
    More insulation yes
    Improved thermal performance from the more insulation: at best doubtful, at worst none

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #14
    delfagio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭delfagio


    Plus 1 to the airtightness versus insulation conundrum.

    You could spend 50k upgrading the entire house in insulation, but if the airtightness is still at say 8 - 10AC/hr or worse, then bye bye heat, hello high heating bills.

    As soon as you turn your heating off when the house is nice and warm, I'd say within an hour the house would be cool again and you would have to stick the heating on again. Burning money.

    Definitely get an airtightness test done and see what remedies could be done to improve the airtightness to a lower figure. This alone will make a huge difference to the house


  • #15
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    mcneil wrote: »
    How is filling the cavity with more insulation wasting money. Yes I understand that air tightness is good for reducing heat loss but pumping the cavity will give me more insulation.
    For these reasons:
    1. If the in-situ insulation boards are not perfectly fitted in the cavity and there are any air gaps between the insulation boards and the wall, you will have thermal looping happening. Pumping the cavity with more insulation will not change this, thus the conduction heat loss characteristics of the wall will remain by and large unchanged. Given that the house was built at the height of the boom, how well do you think the insulation was installed?
    2. If the major heat loss mechanism of the house is not conduction through the walls, then pumping the cavity will have negligible positive effect.
    Also:
    If you have significant thermal bridging (f.i. block on flat cavity closers), pumping the cavity will exasperate the issue to the point of getting mould formations inside the house.

    mcneil wrote: »
    Airtightness has its own negatives which I don't sit well with. Another thing is, once you get these airtightness guys out, the next recommendations are get your insulation upgraded and install a heat recovery system in. I don't have the funds for all this.

    What negatives? Good air tightness and appropriate ventilation go hand in hand.
    If you don't have the funds now for a proper upgrade, then spend time now researching how to spend your money wisely in the future (when you have it) rather than spending money now and researching later why it didn't give the same cost/comfort improvements you expected.
    mcneil wrote: »
    My thinking and this is going from experience in other peoples houses is that if I upgrade insulation and install a new stove in living room to burn coal and turf then my home will be warmer! That's all im looking.

    Its very difficult to get an 06 new build completely airtight since its already built so I would rather go for the insulation and stove. I don't mind spending the extra few quid if my home is more comfortable and less fuel costs(thou I get turf for free!)
    My knowledge is from investigating why people (such as yourself) have had no positive benefit to several "energy upgrades" of their homes.
    No house is completely air tight but generally with a bit of effort and knowledge it is not prohibitively expensive to reduce the infiltration rate by 70-80%. Without having your house tested for air tightness, you will never know where on the scale it is.
    mcneil wrote: »
    The cost of getting my tiger new build air tight would be crazy I'd imagine and wouldn't have that kind of money I'm afraid.
    If you don't have the funds now, then start saving and wait until you do.


  • #16
    JonathonS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    OP, if and when you decide to go ahead with cavity insulation you should look at BASF Walltite. It is different (a foam) and a lot more expensive than beads, but one of its benefits is that is does contribute to air tightness.


  • #17
    marieab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭marieab


    Do you mind if I ask how is airtightness achieved i.e. what filles the gaps/holes to prevent heat loss? I thought the insulation would do this? I am involved in a new build and I am currently researching our next step....insulation, airtightness etc and I'm still a bit confused!!!


  • #18
    JonathonS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    Marieab you would be better off starting a new thread with this question.


  • #19
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    marieab wrote: »
    Do you mind if I ask how is airtightness achieved i.e. what filles the gaps/holes to prevent heat loss? I thought the insulation would do this? I am involved in a new build and I am currently researching our next step....insulation, airtightness etc and I'm still a bit confused!!!

    Use the search feature. There must be tens if not hundreds of threads on the subject.


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