Things Female Cyclists Hate to Hear

ocisorrenta · 09-02-2016 06:36PM #1

Ladies, and maybe gents, got a random request for help.

Writing an article entitled '10 Things female cyclists hate to hear' and looking for suggestions from the racing, touring and commuting world.

I've only managed six, weak, sentences myself so far.

1 “That’s the smallest size”
The dark ages are gone, women’s professional cycling is taking off and yet still some brands do not make clothes, shoes or bike frames small enough to accommodate all women. How distressing to see the bike of your dreams, and find out you can never ride it.

2 “We’ll wait for you at the top”
Okay, in some groups some women might be relieved to hear this at the bottom of a climb. But in others, it’s hugely patronizing and suggests no woman could ever pass a man on an incline. Think about it before you say it next time.

3 “Nice arse”
Don’t be that person who shouts ‘nice arse’ out the window as you drive by a female cyclist. Nine times out of 10, it isn’t appreciated.

4 “There aren’t any showers in this office”
Men generally don’t seem to mind cycling in to work and splashing their face in the toilet sink, but not ladies. So when you start a new job and find out not only is it nowhere near the gym and its showers, it’s also not got its own shower, thoughts arise of years being the smelly girl in the corner.

5 “Shall I put a triple on?”
Assuming that a female couldn’t manage to ride a bike without three chain rings is carte blanche for a female to punch you in the face.
Plenty of women are strong enough to ride bigger gears than any men.

6 “That’s the only colours it comes in”
With men’s sizes often just not quite right for a female cyclist’s body, many brands have come up with women’s specific cycle clothing ranges. However, much of their design work has gone not into fit, but colours. The old ‘pink-it-and-shrink-it’ tactic remains and that slick black jersey your male cycling partner was wearing last week? It only comes in neon purple in women’s sizes.

Zyzz · 09-02-2016 06:40PM

7. "Is that a motor in your bottom bracket or are you just happy to see me?"

ocisorrenta · 09-02-2016 06:41PM

Zyzz wrote: »

7. "Is that a motor in your bottom bracket or are you just happy to see me?"

Topical.

bazermc · 09-02-2016 06:53PM

Can you give me a hand putting my chamois cream on.

eeeee · 09-02-2016 07:47PM

Casual sexism is beyond irritating, outdated, and unnecessary and prejudiced, whether meant in jest or not. It's in the 'I'm not racist but…' or 'they say that word themselves…' school of sexism, it's subtle and insidious. On occasion non club members join our road spins certain amongst their number spend a good amount of the start of a spin giving out about how they had to 'sneak away' from their wives/partners, hiding bike purchases from same wives and partners cos god forbid a woman gets the whole sport/exercise thing. There are several variations on that theme, it's extraordinarily irritating. That was a bit of a rant, sorry.

Something that happens to me every time I have gone into a bike shop with my road bike is: 'That's a big saddle to bar drop, (usually accompanied by 'very aggressive for a woman.) You'd be more comfortable on a bigger frame', the assumption that women only like pootling along slowly. Unwanted advice is the worst!

I suppose it's in the 'we'll wait for you at the top' school of irritating things to hear.

'You're strong, for a woman' or 'You'd beat/you beat men up that climb/in that sprint etc.*', again the you're supposed to be delighted at the affirmation of your ability against men, cos you know, male performance is the yardstick and arbitrator of ability :rolleyes:

I hate hearing about a super good deal or bargain, "I got the xxx jacket for €fcuk all', you look it up and it's mens' kit only!

Oh i have so many!

*This does not happen in my own club, firstly cos everyone races and they're all super, super strong, and also mainly cos they're not sexist dinosaurs! I have come across this attitude in every group I have gone out with outside my club though.

rollingscone · 09-02-2016 07:50PM

ocisorrenta wrote: »

Ladies, and maybe gents, got a random request for help.

Writing an article entitled '10 Things female cyclists hate to hear' and looking for suggestions from the racing, touring and commuting world.

I've only managed six, weak, sentences myself so far.

1 “That’s the smallest size”
The dark ages are gone, women’s professional cycling is taking off and yet still some brands do not make clothes, shoes or bike frames small enough to accommodate all women. How distressing to see the bike of your dreams, and find out you can never ride it.

2 “We’ll wait for you at the top”
Okay, in some groups some women might be relieved to hear this at the bottom of a climb. But in others, it’s hugely patronizing and suggests no woman could ever pass a man on an incline. Think about it before you say it next time.

3 “Nice arse”
Don’t be that person who shouts ‘nice arse’ out the window as you drive by a female cyclist. Nine times out of 10, it isn’t appreciated.

4 “There aren’t any showers in this office”
Men generally don’t seem to mind cycling in to work and splashing their face in the toilet sink, but not ladies. So when you start a new job and find out not only is it nowhere near the gym and its showers, it’s also not got its own shower, thoughts arise of years being the smelly girl in the corner.

5 “Shall I put a triple on?”
Assuming that a female couldn’t manage to ride a bike without three chain rings is carte blanche for a female to punch you in the face.
Plenty of women are strong enough to ride bigger gears than any men.

6 “That’s the only colours it comes in”
With men’s sizes often just not quite right for a female cyclist’s body, many brands have come up with women’s specific cycle clothing ranges. However, much of their design work has gone not into fit, but colours. The old ‘pink-it-and-shrink-it’ tactic remains and that slick black jersey your male cycling partner was wearing last week? It only comes in neon purple in women’s sizes.

Just an addendum to point 3. It's also often not a female cyclist.

There's probably a little bit more on the manufacturers side in terms of flowers on wsd road bikes etc. Indicators of a male dominated design team maybe? Have you made enquiries with any manufacturers about their wsd design inputs?

Also you might find clubs more fertile ground.

Of the regular female posters here I think Gadetra is the only mega club person, at least by what is posted here.

Domane · 09-02-2016 07:53PM

OP, you have some good points there and it must be truly annoying when you can't get a particular bike or clothing in your size/colour. However please don't turn this into an anti male rant as we're all cyclists and generally we all get along when we meet out on the road. I don't care if a woman can overtake me (and some have) and I don't get a kick out of overtaking a woman because I've nothing to prove at my age, and I generally give a good morning etc when doing so, but I don't always get an answer. Perhaps it's an insecurity thing with some female cyclists as they feel they have something to prove and feel that all male cyclists are looking down upon them? Get over it ladies. 99% of male cyclists are out and about for the exercise, camaderie, fun of it etc.

Unknown Soldier · 09-02-2016 07:56PM

gadetra wrote: »

Casual sexism is beyond irritating, outdated, and unnecessary and prejudiced, whether meant in jest or not. It's in the 'I'm not racist but…' or 'they say that word themselves…' school of sexism, it's subtle and insidious. That was a bit of a rant, sorry.

Something that happens to me every time I have gone into a bike shop with my road bike is: 'That's a big saddle to bar drop, (usually accompanied by 'very aggressive for a woman.) You'd be more comfortable on a bigger frame', the assumption that women only like pootling along slowly. Unwanted advice is the worst!

I suppose it's in the 'we'll wait for you at the top' school of irritating things to hear.

'You're strong, for a woman' or 'You'd beat/you beat men up that climb/in that sprint etc.*', again the you're supposed to be delighted at the affirmation of your ability against men, cos you know, male performance is the yardstick and arbitrator of ability :rolleyes:

I hate hearing about a super good deal or bargain, "I got the xxx jacket for €fcuk all', you look it up and it's mens' kit only!

Oh i have so many!

*This does not happen in my own club, firstly cos everyone races and they're all super, super strong, and also mainly cos they're not sexist dinosaurs! I have come across this attitude in every group I have gone out with outside my club though.

Cyclists. < That's who they are, due to what they are doing.

Splitting them into various categories is what people do.

eeeee · 09-02-2016 07:57PM

Domane wrote: »

OP, you have some good points there and it must be truly annoying when you can't get a particular bike or clothing in your size/colour. However please don't turn this into an anti male rant as we're all cyclists and generally we all get along when we meet out on the road. I don't care if a woman can overtake me (and some have) and I don't get a kick out of overtaking a woman because I've nothing to prove at my age, and I generally give a good morning etc when doing so, but I don't always get an answer. Perhaps it's an insecurity thing with some female cyclists as they feel they have something to prove and feel that all male cyclists are looking down upon them? Get over it ladies. 99% of male cyclists are out and about for the exercise, camaderie, fun of it etc.

No part of this thread or it's replies are anti male cyclists, the OP lacked any inference of the same. Sexism exists, and it's ok to talk about it, that isn't being anti-men, it's merely stating fact and sharing experiences. Sexism against any gender is not allowed on here.

Zyzz · 09-02-2016 08:01PM

"8. That beard is killing your aerodynamics."

eeeee · 09-02-2016 08:04PM

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Cyclists. < That's who they are, due to what they are doing.

Splitting them into various categories is what people do.

Yes, true, however the OP did ask what female cyclists hate to hear. Like it or not we frequently get different responses to male cyclists, and visa versa.

ThisRegard · 09-02-2016 08:07PM

gadetra wrote: »

No part of this thread or it's replies are anti male cyclists, the OP lacked any inference of the same. Sexism exists, and it's ok to talk about it, that isn't being anti-men, it's merely stating fact and sharing experiences. Sexism against any gender is not allowed on here.

I don't think it's sexist to say you have to hide purchases from your wife.

Domane · 09-02-2016 08:11PM

gadetra wrote: »

No part of this thread or it's replies are anti male cyclists, the OP lacked any inference of the same. Sexism exists, and it's ok to talk about it, that isn't being anti-men, it's merely stating fact and sharing experiences. Sexism against any gender is not allowed on here.

Au contraire, the point about "men being happy to just splash their face in the sink, while ladies prefer to shower" is offensive in that it implies that men are happy to go round smelling of B.O. all day while ladies are generally more aware of personal hygiene.

As for the comment about "we'll wait for you at the top", I'd imagine that's said in jest most of the time (I say it to my mates all the time, even though I know that they'll be waiting for me!), but we've reached the point in human existence where EVERYTHING SAID must be first run past the "will it offend any race, colour, creed, or sexual orientation committee of political correctness". When did some people lose their sense of bloody humour? Perhaps male and female cyclists should just go their separate ways, cycle different roads just in case a wave, a nod, a good morning etc is taken as being condescending or patronising?

Finally, I've three daughters who cycle with me and we love the slagging back and forth. Hope to Jesus that they never go down the victim hood road.

Cookie_Monster · 09-02-2016 08:12PM

ocisorrenta wrote: »

1 “That’s the smallest size”

Not a women specific issue

2 “We’ll wait for you at the top”

Not a women specific issue

3 “Nice arse”

Not a women specific issue

if in doubt I invite you to watch me cycle past

:pac:

4 “There aren’t any showers in this office”

Not a women specific issue

5 “Shall I put a triple on?”

Not a women specific issue

6 “That’s the only colours it comes in”

Not a women specific issue

Sound like you're trying to make up a load of sexist clickbait rubbish tbh. All of the above are issues encountered by both men and women and are by no means even slightly gender specific.

Just remove 'female' from the title of the article and it *might* begin to be reasonable.

Unknown Soldier · 09-02-2016 08:13PM

gadetra wrote: »

Yes, true, however the OP did ask what female cyclists hate to hear. Like it or not we frequently get different responses to male cyclists, and visa versa.

That's the battle ground? No?

To be on equal standing?

Hated and abused equally

Domane · 09-02-2016 08:15PM

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

That's the battle ground? No?

To be on equal standing?

Hated and abused equally

Try the family law courts mate. Men definitely do not get equal standing there!

eeeee · 09-02-2016 08:22PM

Domane wrote: »

Au contraire, the point about "men being happy to just splash their face in the sink, while ladies prefer to shower" is offensive in that it implies that men are happy to go round smelling of B.O. all day while ladies are generally more aware of personal hygiene.

As for the comment about "we'll wait for you at the top", I'd imagine that's said in jest most of the time (I say it to my mates all the time, even though I know that they'll be waiting for me!), but we've reached the point in human existence where EVERYTHING SAID must be first run past the "will it offend any race, colour, creed, or sexual orientation committee of political correctness". When did some people lose their sense of bloody humour? Perhaps male and female cyclists should just go their separate ways, cycle different roads just in case a wave, a nod, a good morning etc is taken as being condescending or patronising?

Finally, I've three daughters who cycle with me and we love the slagging back and forth. Hope to Jesus that they never go down the victim hood road.

I speak from personal experience, sexism exists in cycling, that is a fact. This being so and calling it out does not mean you're going down the victimhood road, it means your pointing out prejudice.

No one had said or posted anything extreme, or anti-male in this thread. It's a relatively lighthearted look at the cycling experience from a woman's perspective.

The examples you give at the top of your post are absolutely sexist, sexism exists for men and women. No one is disputing that.

Yes gendering things can be unhelpful, and of course most issues are familiar to both women and men. Responding to the OP and even the title of OP's article isn't just click bait, there is frequently a different response, and you can's ignore the weight of centuries of routine and extreme sexism. Things are sometimes different for different genders, that is a fact of life. Sometimes it's not, that is also a fact of life. Neither is sexist or diving into victimhood :rolleyes:

eeeee · 09-02-2016 08:24PM

Domane wrote: »

Try the family law courts mate. Men definitely do not get equal standing there!

Mod Note: the topic of this thread is not family law courts or men v women. It's things female cyclists hate to hear. Please stay on topic. I am reprimanding myself also! Any questions pm me, do not respond in thread.

ocisorrenta · 09-02-2016 08:32PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Not a women specific issue

Not a women specific issue

Not a women specific issue
if in doubt I invite you to watch me cycle past
:pac:

Not a women specific issue

Not a women specific issue

Not a women specific issue

Sound like you're trying to make up a load of sexist clickbait rubbish tbh. All of the above are issues encountered by both men and women and are by no means even slightly gender specific.

Just remove 'female' from the title of the article and it *might* begin to be reasonable.

Unfortunately, this is what the editor wants and as a freelance journalist, I'm in no position to turn it down - particularly as it's not a hard piece to write.

None of these things have to be gender specific, they just have to be things that women who cycle don't like hearing.

RobFowl · 09-02-2016 08:43PM

Have you ridden the Tour de France?
Annoying as 1 its daft and 2 there isn't a womens TDF much to the sports shame.....

rollingscone · 09-02-2016 08:48PM

Do non cyclists still believe that cycling will give you unattractively muscular legs? Or did that die out with the early 2000s love of unappealing frailty?

There's no need for men to be defensive about sexism, acknowledging that murder exists doesn't make you a murderer but it reminds you of your duty to not murder people.

An uneven playing field exists, this doesn't make you a villain but you should be trying to be a fairer better person, no medals will be awarded and no victory parades held for your heroism (sorry Paul Murphy) but you'll be a better person, so that's the thing.

All it requires is thinking twice and applying the baseline that we're all equally valid human beings in an inherited structure.

Many of the OPs points can be applied to men but then they could also be applied to Otters, extrapolating an argument away from the question it asks is changing the subject nothing else.

@OP again I'd suggest you might be better served contacting some clubs and asking to have a couple of open questions posted on their private member forums/pages with returns by a deadline.

Also, whose coming up with the Women Specific Designs thing could be a real goldmine.

Domane · 09-02-2016 08:49PM

ocisorrenta wrote: »

Unfortunately, this is what the editor wants and as a freelance journalist, I'm in no position to turn it down - particularly as it's not a hard piece to write.

None of these things have to be gender specific, they just have to be things that women who cycle don't like hearing.

Look, I understand that you've got a job to do, and who in their right mind would turn down work but I for one am sick to death of the "poor put upon me" articles that pass for column inches in the media, whether it's women, gay or immigrant lobby groups. Instead of writing about a negative side of cycling for women, why not write about what women love about cycling? An article about what "women hate hearing when out cycling" might only put some women off from taking up cycling in the first place. As for the snide comments about "nice arse", everyone who wears Lycra shorts gets that ****e!

Victor · 09-02-2016 08:57PM

"Cycling is for men."

"The peloton are catching us."

"Only 5 more climbs to go."

"Write an article that manipulates people for click-bait purposes."

RobFowl · 09-02-2016 09:05PM

Does your bike have a basket

eeeee · 09-02-2016 09:11PM

Any further off-topic posts will be deleted, Again, this is NOT a men v women thread! Read OP if you need further guidance. Any questions pm me do not respond in thread.

velo.2010 · 09-02-2016 09:31PM

@ocisorrenta.

If the article allows... maybe add a paragraph at the bottom to describe the benefits of cycling. Perhaps, a quote from a female rider regarding one of your 10 'Hate to Hear' list then a follow on with a reason why they took up and continue the sport.

sullivlo · 09-02-2016 09:39PM

"I'm just going to pull over for a quick wee"

There is nothing quick or easy about female cyclists trying to struggle out of bib tights in a ditch whilst maintaining modesty, so it irks me when the lads just pull in, pull out & wee against a wall!

eeeee · 09-02-2016 09:43PM

sullivlo wrote: »

"I'm just going to pull over for a quick wee"

There is nothing quick or easy about female cyclists trying to struggle out of bib tights in a ditch whilst maintaining modesty, so it irks me when the lads just pull in, pull out & wee against a wall!

Ha ha oh goodness yeah, Especially when it's freezing cold and/or raining out. Gloves off, jersey off ugh it's a pain in the hole! I did hear of specialized bibs that have a special zip to alleviate this somewhat. I have hope!

09-02-2016 09:43PM

ocisorrenta wrote: »

3 “Nice arse”
Don’t be that person who shouts ‘nice arse’ out the window as you drive by a female cyclist. Nine times out of 10, it isn’t appreciated.

I imagine that someone would rather hear that than

"Fat arse"

though.

eeeee · 09-02-2016 09:47PM

No comments on the arse-al region would be good! :pac:

NamelessPhil · 09-02-2016 10:06PM

I have had a few gendered comments thrown my way over the years. :mad:

"You're too fast! Said by many a panting male at traffic lights during my commute. It's not a race, I'm on my way into work, so what?

"How/Why are you cycling in heels like that?" Because I can, and the mechanics of cycling mean you use the ball of your foot to push the pedal. Also I can't be arsed changing when I get to my destination.

After a hilly 300km, "You did well for a girl!" Yeah I did and I was back an hour before you were.

Agree about the query about gearing, there is an expectation that you'll be riding with a triple or at least a compact. I ride triple on the commute, compact on the audax bike and standard on the race bike.

There is an undercurrent of casual sexism. If a woman turns up to lead a ride there is an expectation that it will be slow. I've seen guys eyeball the group with the women in it and cross to the group on the other side. They will promptly be dropped by that group on the first climb, but they weren't going to ride with the women!

Having said all that, I had a great experience on Paris-Brest-Paris last August. There were people on the sides of the route at all times of the day even in the middle of the night cheering us on. I would always respond with a "Merci" even when climbing yet another hill. It was noticeable that when the spectator realised I was female I would get "Allez pour les Femmes!" in response.

RobFowl · 09-02-2016 10:06PM

glasso wrote: »

I imagine that someone would rather hear that than

"Fat arse"

though.

Have only heard that term used to describe men

roverrules · 09-02-2016 10:07PM

sullivlo · 09-02-2016 10:09PM

gadetra wrote: »

Ha ha oh goodness yeah, Especially when it's freezing cold and/or raining out. Gloves off, jersey off ugh it's a pain in the hole! I did hear of specialized bibs that have a special zip to alleviate this somewhat. I have hope!

First time I wore bib shorts I wasn't thinking and wore my vest over the straps. So when the inevitable wee was needed, I ended up standing in just my sports bra. Thankfully it was an organised sportif so there were actual toilets so I wasn't flashing to the world.

Lesson learned that day!

roverrules · 09-02-2016 10:11PM

ted1 · 09-02-2016 10:12PM

ill change that tyre tyre for you, and give the bike a look at.,,

RobFowl · 09-02-2016 10:13PM

eeeee · 09-02-2016 10:18PM

<off topic>

Sullivo I did exactly the same thing with the bib straps/vest. Not fun!

My personal favorite line I got (I've told it here before), whilst commuting at non-sweat speed and continually catching the male cyclist in front of me (not speeding up or slowing down, just riding steady), was "You are a strong cyclist. If you get a bike like mine you would beat all the boys" :rolleyes:

roverrules · 09-02-2016 10:22PM

nak · 09-02-2016 10:26PM

That's too difficult for a woman - said by commentators during a woman's race.

RobFowl · 09-02-2016 10:30PM

roverrules wrote: »

Again, surely you can ride it, just not compete?

Only a woman could make a comment like that

Thats sarcasm btw !!!!

eeeee · 09-02-2016 11:04PM

Mod Voice: And just like that it drifts off topic again. I'm tired of deleting posts, and frustrated that I can't respond to them at the same time without going off-topic. :pac: "Things female cyclists hate to hear". That's it! Any questions pm me, do not respond in thread.

CramCycle · 09-02-2016 11:10PM

ocisorrenta wrote: »

Writing an article entitled '10 Things female cyclists hate to hear' and looking for suggestions from the racing, touring and commuting world.

MOD VOICE: Not what the forum is for /thread locked

Any questions please PM me.

Things Female Cyclists Hate to Hear

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