Trinity invite BNP leader Nick Griffin over for debate on immigration

Dionysus

mattjack wrote: »

A small group of Royal British Legion volunteers ,not representing all the Royal British Legion members ,went to the Sudetenland as a volunteer police force.
The mission was abandoned after about ten days and they were,nt sent to fight more to supervise voting.Without doubt they were certainly misguided
as a Scottish branch, a Jewish branch and a number of other groups objected.

In fact, they were representing the Royal British Legion - or the "British Legion" as it was then known. Where did you get the idea that they weren't?


In this photo from 1935, for instance, you have 'a British Legion delegation being received by Hitler in Berlin, 1935. Third from left is Lt-Col G.R. Crossfield, vice-chairman of the British Legion, with Rudolf Hess, Capt. M.A. Hawes, R.N., former British Naval Attaché in Berlin, Sir Francis Featherston-Godley, Chairman of the British Legion, chatting to Hitler. Ribbentrop is on the extreme right in foreground.' (Source)

Da Shins Kelly

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Well done Sherlock, well done.

Nothing personal now.

I'm just saying that it's nothing to be worked up about. They just want people to go to the debate because he's controversial. No need to be a smart*ss.

Nothing personal now.

mikemac

Let him speak

He likely knows more then the clowns on the left

“It is a deliberate misrepresentation to suggest that tens of thousands will suddenly descend en masse on Ireland . . . The expected trickle of immigration will on balance benefit the Irish economy. I estimate that fewer than 2000 will choose our distant shores each year.” (Prionsas de Rossa MEP August 2002).

temply

Dionysus wrote: »

Because, well to state the obvious, they didn't "die for freedom". They clearly died to protect and/or enhance the power of the British Empire/British state. No more, and no less. So stop trying to romanticise it as something it never was intended to be.

British people and many of their more dishonest academics have simply wiped all that collaboration between the British and Nazi Germany in the 1930s out of history, despite the abundant historical evidence.

sure didn't the royal family change their german surname to windsor around then?

Dionysus

ejmaztec wrote: »

The pre-WW2 British Nazi connections will be well rehearsed by the time the wreaths are being laid at the Cenotaph, and no doubt the pre-WW2 Irish Nazi connections will get a mention as well.:P

They will - all three of them, Seán Russell, Francis Stuart and Frank Ryan - with the latter being an Irish republican hero of the socialist side of the Spanish Civil War, the middle one being an Australian Protestant with Irish republican sympathies, and the former being a rightwing Irish republican, all of whom were united by a hatred of British rule in Ireland.

In contrast to this, we have far, far more British nobles and aristocrats, soldiers and military representatives supporting Nazi Germany in the 1930s, and Nazi Germany wasn't even occupying their country. So what excuses did they have for supporting the Nazis? Why are British people making apologies for British support for Nazis in the 1930s and the popular - yes, popular - British support for collaboration with Adolf Hitler under the policy of Appeasement is brushed aside?

mattjack

Dionysus wrote: »

In fact, they were representing the Royal British Legion - or the "British Legion" as it was then known. Where did you get the idea that they weren't?


In this photo from 1935, for instance, you have 'a British Legion delegation being received by Hitler in Berlin, 1935. Third from left is Lt-Col G.R. Crossfield, vice-chairman of the British Legion, with Rudolf Hess, Capt. M.A. Hawes, R.N., former British Naval Attaché in Berlin, Sir Francis Featherston-Godley, Chairman of the British Legion, chatting to Hitler. Ribbentrop is on the extreme right in foreground.' (Source)

Where did you get the idea they fought in the Sudetenland ? the picture you refer is generally accepted that Nazi officials hijacked an event organised by British Legion members and German WW1 veterans.You are correct, it was know as the British Legion then.

Dionysus

mattjack wrote: »

Where did you get the idea they fought in the Sudetenland ? the picture you refer is generally accepted that Nazi officials hijacked an event organised by British Legion members and German WW1 veterans.You are correct, it was know as the British Legion then.

Where did you get the idea that they fought in the Sudetenland? The (Royal) British Legion organised a force to fight for the Nazis in their invasion of the Sudetenland, but after they had done so in 1938 the Nazis told them that they were not necessary.

Here are plenty of historical accounts confirming this role of the (Royal) British Legion in supporting Nazi Germany in 1938.

LondonIrish90

Dionysus wrote: »

Because, well to state the obvious, they didn't "die for freedom". They clearly died to protect and/or enhance the power of the British Empire/British state. No more, and no less. So stop trying to romanticise it as something it never was intended to be.

British people and many of their more dishonest academics have simply wiped all that collaboration between the British and Nazi Germany in the 1930s out of history, despite the abundant historical evidence.

Even if the most ardent republican will admit that the poppy is a symbol of respect for those who: "died to protect the power of the British state" then it can't be that bad a thing. A person with less of a deep rooted angst would describe what they did in a far more respectful and in truth more accurate manner. But even your good self seems to be along the right lines with this post. Nevertheless, it is good enough for me and the almost 6 and a half million others who bought a poppy last year so your warped and hate filled views are overpowered by those with less insular minds. The fact that "wolfe tone" thanks just about every post you make in regards to anything British tells its own story.

charlemont

Jack Straw showed him up on Question Time showing why he himself was a cabinet minister whereas Nick himself is just a populist and will never reach a high position, Nothing against the man as such but Iv no problem with immigration as long as there is integration, Racists generally are just bitter individuals with their own agenda anyway.

Dionysus

temply wrote: »

sure didn't the royal family change their german surname to windsor around then?

In July 1917 the Saxe-Coburg and Gotha royal family changed their name to the House of Windsor in order to distance themselves from their cousins in the German royal family during WW I.

Helix

the best way to deal like people with him is to put him into a debate in the most public way

crucamim

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

What's an Eirefolk and how many is "so many" ?

Eirefolk are natives of Eire.

crucamim

discus wrote: »

The UK and the republic have no borders as such. So if illegals get into either, they can enter the other.

I do not need to be told that. The government of Eire is allowing illegal immigrants to enter their country and has given amnesties to illegal immigrants who have managed to breed in Eire. Unfortunately, the government of Eire has failed to keep their "guests" in their republic. They have allowed these "guests" to use Eire as a base for theiving expeditions into Northern Ireland.

Dionysus

crucamim wrote: »

The government of Eire is allowing illegal immigrants to enter their country and has given amnesties to illegal immigrants who have managed to breed in Eire. Unfortunately, the government of Eire has failed to keep their "guests" in their republic. They have allowed these "guests" to use Eire as a base for theiving expeditions into Northern Ireland.

The "government of Éire" does not exist, alas. There are currently two "governments in Éire". Only British people refer to the 26-county state as Éire in the English language. Irish people know that 'Ireland' is merely the English for Éire and that consequently Belfast, Ireland is simply and obviously the English for Béal Feirste, Éire.

/end of.

crucamim

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Why wouldn't I be interested when London still has the ultimate say in the north?

Anyway I have an interest in politics regardless, I try to keep up with whats going on in the US too, hardly a crime is it?

Some years ago an Eire journalist called "Desmond Fennell" wrote a book called "Beyond Nationalism". Reviewing the book, another Eire journalist, Hugh Munroo, wrote "If we have a right to be independent of the rest of the world, the rest of the world has a right to be independent of us."

Why do you Eirefolk suffer from this compulsive urge to preach in high moral tones at the rest of humanity - especially at Ulster Catholics, the tribe you abandoned in 1921 and again in August 1969? It seems to me that, if, anywhere in the world, two flies on a wall have a fight, the average common or garden Eireperson just has to reach for a pen or a microphone to explain why one of the flies is right and the other fly is wrong.

Dionysus

crucamim wrote: »

Some years ago an Eire journalist called "Desmond Fennell" wrote a book called "Beyond Nationalism". Reviewing the book, another Eire journalist, Hugh Munroo, wrote "If we have a right to be independent of the rest of the world, the rest of the world has a right to be independent of us."

Why do you Eirefolk suffer from this compulsive urge to preach in high moral tones at the rest of humanity - especially at Ulster Catholics, the tribe you abandoned in 1921 and again in August 1969? It seems to me that, if, anywhere in the world, two flies on a wall have a fight, the average common or garden Eireperson just has to reach for a pen or a microphone to explain why one of the flies is right and the other fly is wrong.

Desmond Fennell is far from being a mere "journalist". "Éire" :rolleyes: - I get the impression that the words "papist" and "Fenian" roll off your tongue just as ignorantly.

But you're correct in one respect: the Belfast-born Des Fennell is clearly from Éire by virtue of that fact.

desertcircus

Probable outcome of Nick Griffin appearing at a debate in Trinity:

1. Some idiot bigots go along to watch their hero.
2. Griffin makes a speech which is more or less completely devoid of actual argumentative merit.
3. A pack of drunk nineteen-year-olds tear Griffin's "arguments" into very small pieces.
4. People who went along because they were on the verge of becoming idiot bigots leave feeling extremely silly about thinking about converting to idiot bigotry.

Dionysus

desertcircus wrote: »

Probable outcome of Nick Griffin appearing at a debate in Trinity:

1. Some idiot bigots go along to watch their hero.
2. Griffin makes a speech which is more or less completely devoid of actual argumentative merit.
3. A pack of drunk nineteen-year-olds tear Griffin's "arguments" into very small pieces.
4. People who went along because they were on the verge of becoming idiot bigots leave feeling extremely silly about thinking about converting to idiot bigotry.

Alternatively, what could happen is that the self-declared "anti-fascists" demonstrate that very status by attacking Griffin and making everybody very uneasy about their "anti-fascist" professions. Or at least this is about the jist of what happened in UCD some years ago when one Justin Barrett appeared and the so-called "anti-fascists" decided to, well, physically attack him. Jesus wept. :rolleyes:

KeithAFC

crucamim wrote: »

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Why wouldn't I be interested when London still has the ultimate say in the north?

Anyway I have an interest in politics regardless, I try to keep up with whats going on in the US too, hardly a crime is it?

Some years ago an Eire journalist called "Desmond Fennell" wrote a book called "Beyond Nationalism". Reviewing the book, another Eire journalist, Hugh Munroo, wrote "If we have a right to be independent of the rest of the world, the rest of the world has a right to be independent of us."

Why do you Eirefolk suffer from this compulsive urge to preach in high moral tones at the rest of humanity - especially at Ulster Catholics, the tribe you abandoned in 1921 and again in August 1969? It seems to me that, if, anywhere in the world, two flies on a wall have a fight, the average common or garden Eireperson just has to reach for a pen or a microphone to explain why one of the flies is right and the other fly is wrong.

They had no choice. The Republic was offered the counties but Dev didn't want the Protestants ruining his country.

Eric Cartman

desertcircus wrote: »

Probable outcome of Nick Griffin appearing at a debate in Trinity:

1. Some idiot bigots go along to watch their hero.
2. Griffin makes a speech which is more or less completely devoid of actual argumentative merit.
3. A pack of drunk nineteen-year-olds tear Griffin's "arguments" into very small pieces.
4. People who went along because they were on the verge of becoming idiot bigots leave feeling extremely silly about thinking about converting to idiot bigotry.

more like

1. Nick griffin meets an angry protest from idiotic yobs on the way in
2. Nick griffin is shouted down for an hour and called a racist and the yobs doing it are ejected
3. Somebody asks an actual question
4. Nick Griffin trys to answer but is shouted down more
5. A bunch of people there just start screaming at him about being a nazi again
6. Debate ends
7. Nick griffin slated for supposedly saying racist and anti-semetic things throughout the whole debate. Trinity slated for trying to 'silence objectors opinions' and 'not giving fair time to anyone except nick'

end result : yet another time where he doesnt get a word in and is just shouted at by ignorant tools , we know the lads nuts but atleast let him speak for 2 minutes

Wolfe Tone

Eric Cartman wrote: »

more like

1. Nick griffin meets an angry protest from idiotic yobs on the way in
2. Nick griffin is shouted down for an hour and called a racist and the yobs doing it are ejected
3. Somebody asks an actual question
4. Nick Griffin trys to answer but is shouted down more
5. A bunch of people there just start screaming at him about being a nazi again
6. Debate ends
7. Nick griffin slated for supposedly saying racist and anti-semetic things throughout the whole debate. Trinity slated for trying to 'silence objectors opinions' and 'not giving fair time to anyone except nick'

end result : yet another time where he doesnt get a word in and is just shouted at by ignorant tools , we know the lads nuts but atleast let him speak for 2 minutes

If you want to moan about ignorant tools there is no need to look beyond Griffin.

Eric Cartman

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

If you want to moan about ignorant tools there is no need to look beyond Griffin.

im not debating that, the man is indeed an idiot, but hes an idiot whos had words shoved in his mouth and never been given a chance to speak on television or in a debate because he always gets shouted down by equally idiotic people on the left wing. Im not saying anybody should agree with him or anything of the sort, but if he does come over id atleast hope the atendees and organisers of this dont turn it into another frontline

coonecb1

The people trying to silence Nick Griffin are inadvertently helping him.

He can claim to be persecuted and thereby pick up more sympathy and supporters.

The best approach is to tolerate him, give him a platform, and trust that the vast majority of the population will make an informed and appropriate judgment on him.

Free speech is way too important for it to be rationed by do-gooders

crucamim

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

If you want to moan about ignorant tools there is no need to look beyond Griffin.

Griffin has high educational qualifications in Law and in History and from one of the most prestigious universities in the world.

Lefties in England thought that they could bully him on a TV programme. The socialist politician, Jack Straw, called Nick a fascist. Nick replied "My father served in the forces in the war against fascism while your father opted out as a conscientious objector".

sock puppet

crucamim wrote: »

Griffin has high educational qualifications in Law and in History and from one of the most prestigious universities in the world.

Oh I didn't realise. In that case must be correct in his belief that the Holocaust never happened.

LeixlipRed

crucamim wrote: »

Griffin has high educational qualifications in Law and in History and from one of the most prestigious universities in the world.

Lefties in England thought that they could bully him on a TV programme. The socialist politician, Jack Straw, called Nick a fascist. Nick replied "My father served in the forces in the war against fascism while your father opted out as a conscientious objector".

Jack Straw a socialist? Lol :pac:

Richard Hillman

It will be highjacked by somebody, probably from the United Loon Alliance trying to make a name for themselves.

ejmaztec

Dionysus wrote: »

They will - all three of them, Seán Russell, Francis Stuart and Frank Ryan - with the latter being an Irish republican hero of the socialist side of the Spanish Civil War, the middle one being an Australian Protestant with Irish republican sympathies, and the former being a rightwing Irish republican, all of whom were united by a hatred of British rule in Ireland.

In contrast to this, we have far, far more British nobles and aristocrats, soldiers and military representatives supporting Nazi Germany in the 1930s, and Nazi Germany wasn't even occupying their country. So what excuses did they have for supporting the Nazis? Why are British people making apologies for British support for Nazis in the 1930s and the popular - yes, popular - British support for collaboration with Adolf Hitler under the policy of Appeasement is brushed aside?

Only 3?:pac:

It was probably quite fashionable to be a nazi in pre-WW2 Europe, but not so when the bullets started flying. It's very easy now to criticise pre-war nazi supporters in the UK, because we know what Hitler's people did later on, whereas those misguided individuals didn't really know what he was going to do.

I think that they're are probably more nazis in the UK now than there were in the 30s.

Mike 1972

ejmaztec wrote: »

whereas those misguided individuals didn't really know what he was going to do.

Unless of course they were actually paying attention ?

Fromthetrees

Eric Cartman wrote: »

more like

1. Nick griffin meets an angry protest from idiotic yobs on the way in
2. Nick griffin is shouted down for an hour and called a racist and the yobs doing it are ejected
3. Somebody asks an actual question
4. Nick Griffin trys to answer but is shouted down more
5. A bunch of people there just start screaming at him about being a nazi again
6. Debate ends
7. Nick griffin slated for supposedly saying racist and anti-semetic things throughout the whole debate. Trinity slated for trying to 'silence objectors opinions' and 'not giving fair time to anyone except nick'

end result : yet another time where he doesnt get a word in and is just shouted at by ignorant tools , we know the lads nuts but atleast let him speak for 2 minutes

You're wrong. I'm sure he'll just call in and just talk about immigration and about how it doesn't integrate with western Christian society and in many ways he has a point. I think most Irish people don't give a **** that he's calling here because his general views are actually accepted by most Irish people unfortunately. There has been no problems here in Ireland thus far because the vast majority of immigrants coming here over the past 10 years plus have been white, catholic, drinkers, that's our kind of folk, he'd be relevant if we had places in Paddyland that were 99% Muslim, there isn't so therefore he's irrelevant and therefore doesn't matter. When there is plenty of non Christian immigration into Paddyland then he will become very relevant and Fine Gael our Christian Democratic masters realise too many non Christians are coming into Paddyland then, and only then will the government do something about immigration, and because there is no problem with immigration today Nick 'National Front' Griffin is as irrelevant as you or I, that's it.