Teenage girl dies on street from peanut allergy

seamus

mitosis wrote: »

Maybe there ought to be an epipen by law anywhere peanut products are sold for consumption on the premises, much as there are defibs in shopping centres, airports etc.

That's a great idea, though obviously the delivery needs to be safe. The defibs you find in public places are specifically set up so that they will only administer a shock if it's required - to do otherwise could kill the patient. You'd need similar safeguards in place to ensure that an epipen can't be used on someone suffering an asthma attack (for example).

truebluesac

truebluesac wrote: »

I hope you or your family never need an ambulance with that attitude ,

We have and we won't be calling them again.

Aestivalis wrote: »

Thats quite insulting. Paramedics are professional practitioners, better equipped to deal with emergencies than anyone else.
Its not the paramedics fault that there is lack of funds for sufficent ambulances and response times.

All too often it's their not giving a **** and not knowing local geography rather than funds that have been my issue.

I think your taxi suggestion would cause more harm than good. We're talking about a person unconscious, unable to move, unable to breath correctly, eventually going into cardiac arrest, and you think putting them in a taxi will benefit them more?

Again, I'm not suggesting a taxi driver will treat them. However if my dad had another heart attack he said himself he would rather we call a taxi because he'll be in the hospital in under half an hour. Call an ambulance and it will be at least half an hour (closer to an hour last time) before some guys show up. Ever look up what's involved in qualifying to be a paramedic?

Whatever, its pointless having this conversation. I'm out.

Pity.

truebluesac

true-or-false wrote: »

I know it's mainly maternity, but surely one from the Rotunda could have been there in less than 5 mins? If not, the Mater is only a little further away.

There's a high chance that someone (either closely or distantly) affected by the incident could be reading all this, so I don't want to say anything too insensitive, but the pharmacy was the wrong place to go. It's understandable that there was a panic and you can't always think of the exact right thing to do in an emergency, but that doesn't suddenly put the responsibilty for a young girl's life in the hands of a pharmacist who has no way to know whether the emergency was genuine or not.

Ambulances are based in fire stations for dublin fire brigade ambulances (main provider of emergancy ambulances in dublin) and the healt board have ambulances station in james but are mostly used for patient transport but would be available for emergancy calls . It would be very rare that an ambulance would be at station . They usually go from dropping 1 patient off at hospital to the next patient

helimachoptor

Pretty much agree with the comments above, i would have vaulted the counter to get what was needed imo

HarpFR

Well, what about the law's been changed?.

Example:
Epinephrine is Prescription Only.
[+] Change Epinephrine to OTC?.
[+] Have doctors in pharmacies?.
[+] Give permissions for pharmacists to decide on weather to give drug or not ( RX only, emergency situation,etc)

What do you think?

Mrs Garth Brooks

That is absolutely shocking. Someone was dying. What the fcuk was wrong with them?

But then again not so long ago we needed a prescription for emergency contraception.

If its an emergency, go to hell with you.


The girl could have been saved. There was a pharmacy a few feet away, the closest and quickest option, you would think. There's 999 option, but you're still waiting and every second counts in a situation like this.

Over a piece of paper.

truebluesac

Deleted User wrote: »

We have and we won't be calling them again.

All too often it's their not giving a **** and not knowing local geography rather than funds that have been my issue.


Again, I'm not suggesting a taxi driver will treat them. However if my dad had another heart attack he said himself he would rather we call a taxi because he'll be in the hospital in under half an hour. Call an ambulance and it will be at least half an hour (closer to an hour last time) before some guys show up. Ever look up what's involved in qualifying to be a paramedic?


Pity.

1 bad experience and you tar every paramedic with the same brush , i am a paramedic and the training takes 2 - 2.5 years . To become an advanced paramedic it takes another 2years following 5 years service

In dublin with a heart attack you would not be waitin that long and there are new by pass protocalls in place to bring the patient to the most suitable hospital

Hootanany

:eek:

Thats not nice the young lady is gone

Balaclava1991

biko wrote: »

Unfortunately chemists can't give out drugs like that. Maybe this will bring out some emergency legislation but it's too late for Emma now.

Poor parents

A woman comes in screaming that her daughter needs an immediate dose and the pharmacy do not give it to her and she dies?

If it was my kid I would return to the pharmacy and torture them, cut their throats and burn the f*cking place down.

If my kid was dying and a pen pushing bureaucrats say "Wrong form" or some such bullcrap and I had a gun in my hand I would be pointing it in their faces and getting things done.

Banned

truebluesac

truebluesac wrote: »

1 bad experience and you tar every paramedic with the same brush , i am a paramedic and the training takes 2 - 2.5 years . To become an advanced paramedic it takes another 2years following 5 years service

More than one, and in fact, all. I assume part of that training includes working in the field? Because there are some working out there who sure as hell hadn't had 2-2.5 years of training.

In dublin with a heart attack you would not be waitin that long and there are new by pass protocalls in place to bring the patient to the most suitable hospital

We're not supposed to wait that long where we live. You of all people should know that promises aren't worth much, or do you change your mind to suit your argument at different times?

TouchingVirus

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

A woman comes in screaming that her daughter needs an immediate dose and the pharmacy do not give it to her and she dies?

If it was my kid I would return to the pharmacy and torture them, cut their throats and burn the f*cking place down.

If my kid was dying and a pen pushing bureaucrats say "Wrong form" or some such bullcrap and I had a gun in my hand I would be pointing it in their faces and getting things done.

I'm pretty sure a minute ago you said she was responsible for her own death before your post was deleted...

mitosis

HarpFR wrote: »

Well, what about the law's been changed?.

Nothing, that I am aware of, has been changed.

looksee

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

A woman comes in screaming that her daughter needs an immediate dose and the pharmacy do not give it to her and she dies?

If it was my kid I would return to the pharmacy and torture them, cut their throats and burn the f*cking place down.

If my kid was dying and a pen pushing bureaucrats say "Wrong form" or some such bullcrap and I had a gun in my hand I would be pointing it in their faces and getting things done.

That is the mentality that means that pharmacies, hospitals etc have to have security guards. While I understand that you are a keyboard warrior who would not do anything of the sort, it is still an attitude in society that ultimately creates the need for bureaucrats.

Balaclava1991

Deleted User wrote: »

As a pharmacist working on that street in Dublin. I would have not given out the epipen to a distressed woman who came into pharmacy claiming their daughter had an attack.(not knowing the circumstances that came to light afterwards). I probably wouldn't have given the medication as I could not make a judgment as to whether an epipen was needed without seeing the patient. I presume this may be a semi regular occurence with a lot of heroin addicts around. ( People who have seen pulp fiction and think adrenaline in the best thing to give in a heroin overdose.)

Although, first port of call would have been to call an ambulance. If patient had been in pharmacy, I would have made an emergency supply where I could say that I acted in the best interests of the patient.

It's a complete tragedy and I feel sorry for everybody in the situation especially the family of the deceased girl.

Even if the girl dies? Every "i" has to be dotted and every "t" has to be crossed? You are seriously saying you would let the girl die?
What if it was your own daughter?
If I met some sniveling yellow belly coward you puts their job and the rules before doing the right thing and saving my kid I would not be responsible for my actions to save my kid's life.
End of.
If it meant going to jail I would not care.
I would move heaven and earth.

HarpFR

mitosis wrote: »

Nothing, that I am aware of, has been changed.

Well,We must think here.

What I am saying is, to change the laws in a small bit. To allow pharmacists to have much more choice and flow. ..:: => To allow pharmacists to give people certain medications without a prescription.

The other thing is, there's lots and LOTS of pharmacies around the place but no much doctors. While having lots of pharmacies around (eg: small town = 6 pharmacies), with only 1 doctor that is rarely there...

you know?.

anyway, lets think guys.
Everyone, Get thinking !!!! !!!!

Aestivalis

Deleted User wrote: »

More than one, and in fact, all. I assume part of that training includes working in the field? Because there are some working out there who sure as hell hadn't had 2-2.5 years of training.


We're not supposed to wait that long where we live. You of all people should know that promises aren't worth much, or do you change your mind to suit your argument at different times?

Paramedics cant be expected to know every backroad in the country.

Paramedics have a range of drugs to treat heart attacks (Aspirin, Nitro, Fliuids, Oxygen), plus ECG interpretation to determine what kind of heart attack he was having.

Plus, if you're father went into cardiac arrest they would have the defibrillator and advanced equipment on its way too.

They may have come across as complete arseholes, but the treatment was given.

One thing to note is, most counties in Ireland literally only have 2 or 3 ambulances available, and they're often out on call the round of the clock going from one place to another. Once again, thats a HSE issue.

truebluesac

Deleted User wrote: »

More than one, and in fact, all. I assume part of that training includes working in the field? Because there are some working out there who sure as hell hadn't had 2-2.5 years of training.


We're not supposed to wait that long where we live. You of all people should know that promises aren't worth much, or do you change your mind to suit your argument at different times?

Im very interested in my job and most of the people i work with are .

Where do you live ? If youlive outside of dublin the national ambulance service have vast areas to cover . And if the closest ambulance to you is already on a case the next nearest is dispatched which can be that far away .

This is one of the results of reducing the public service numbers , all the managment possitions have been left alone whilst the most needed front line works nos are depleated ,

I have never once changed my mind to suit my argument , dublin and outside of dublin work on 2 different systems ,

vitani

Plazaman wrote: »

I'm assuming if there is a young girl standing in front of you with her mother and she is in distress and having trouble breathing then that would be an emergency. Having said that I wasn't there so I don't know and my speculation isn't going to bring the poor girl back.

The way the Indo are reporting it, it seems the mother went into the pharmacy alone and asked for the Epipen.

Absolutely tragic story, in any case. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people involved torturing themselves with 'what if' for the forseeable future.

Gyalist

The thing is that peanut/peanut oil is everywhere. My son was diagnosed when he was about 12 weeks old so we've had lots of time to educate ourselves.

When he was learning to swim he rang me at work to tell me that he had a slight earache from water in his ear. I went to the chemist and they sold me eardrops. I read the ingredient list very carefully yet all the way home I had a feeling of unease. As soon as I got home I double-checked the product online and, yes, it contained more than 50% peanut oil (it was listed on the packaging as Arachis oil)!

eyescreamcone

A number of years back my partner at the time was very ill with cancer.
She since passed away in 2006.

At one stage I went to the pharmacy with a prescription from the hospital doctor as she had run out of her meds.
They told me that that prescription was only good for the date it was signed on.
They said I needed to go to her GP (out of office hours anyway) and get basically a copy of what was in my hand, but signed by her GP.

I said that this can go one of two ways -
You either get the meds for me or I go in over the counter and get them myself.

She brought out a couple of days supply of the meds and was able to bullsh!t the red tape.



Back to the present day.
If it was my child having a reaction in front of me NOBODY would have stopped me getting what was needed from that pharmacy.

Aestivalis

Aestivalis wrote: »

Paramedics cant be expected to know every backroad in the country.

In all cases it was on a street and I checked all the major online maps the day after the first time to see if they were there, and they were. Within 3 minutes of a motorway, all the non-driver had to do was put the address into his phone, if he was bothered.

Paramedics have a range of drugs to treat heart attacks (Aspirin, Nitro, Fliuids, Oxygen), plus ECG interpretation to determine what kind of heart attack he was having.

Yet they weren't able to interpret that correctly. Whereas if he'd gone straight to hospital he would've already been there for half an hour and someone probably would've noticed there was something wrong with him.

Plus, if you're father went into cardiac arrest they would have the defibrillator and advanced equipment on its way too.

Again, would've been in hospital quicker where they also have that equipment.

They may have come across as complete arseholes, but the treatment was given.

And it wasn't very good treatment.

One thing to note is, most counties in Ireland literally only have 2 or 3 ambulances available, and they're often out on call the round of the clock going from one place to another. Once again, thats a HSE issue.

I know that, which is why I know those "half an hour or less" promises are complete and utter bull****.

truebluesac wrote: »

Im very interested in my job and most of the people i work with are .

Where do you live ? If youlive outside of dublin the national ambulance service have vast areas to cover . And if the closest ambulance to you is already on a case the next nearest is dispatched which can be that far away .

This is one of the results of reducing the public service numbers , all the managment possitions have been left alone whilst the most needed front line works nos are depleated ,

I have never once changed my mind to suit my argument , dublin and outside of dublin work on 2 different systems ,

Yes I'm outside of Dublin. What I meant about you changing your argument is that on one hand you're criticising numbers being cut (a fair argument) while suggesting that people should believe the promises of services being provided by government which are simply unrealistic.

Balaclava1991

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Sad that she is dead but there was a sign that clearly said that the sauce contained nuts and therefore she was responsible for her own death.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

A woman comes in screaming that her daughter needs an immediate dose and the pharmacy do not give it to her and she dies?

If it was my kid I would return to the pharmacy and torture them, cut their throats and burn the f*cking place down.

If my kid was dying and a pen pushing bureaucrats say "Wrong form" or some such bullcrap and I had a gun in my hand I would be pointing it in their faces and getting things done.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Even if the girl dies? Every "i" has to be dotted and every "t" has to be crossed? You are seriously saying you would let the girl die?
What if it was your own daughter?
If I met some sniveling yellow belly coward you puts their job and the rules before doing the right thing and saving my kid I would not be responsible for my actions to save my kid's life.
End of.
If it meant going to jail I would not care.
I would move heaven and earth.

Banned

eyescreamcone

eyescreamcone wrote: »

A number of years back my partner at the time was very ill with cancer.
She since passed away in 2006.

At one stage I went to the pharmacy with a prescription from the hospital doctor as she had run out of her meds.
They told me that that prescription was only good for the date it was signed on.
They said I needed to go to her GP (out of office hours anyway) and get basically a copy of what was in my hand, but signed by her GP..

Either they were taking the piss or several pharmacists where I live have broken the rules for me a lot of times.

The HorsesMouth

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Sad that she is dead but there was a sign that clearly said that the sauce contained nuts and therefore she was responsible for her own death.

If you stepped out onto the road by accident and were hit by a car, would you not expect medical people to help you just because it was your fault?

Balaclava1991

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Even if the girl dies? Every "i" has to be dotted and every "t" has to be crossed? You are seriously saying you would let the girl die?
What if it was your own daughter?
If I met some sniveling yellow belly coward you puts their job and the rules before doing the right thing and saving my kid I would not be responsible for my actions to save my kid's life.
End of.
If it meant going to jail I would not care.
I would move heaven and earth.

First of all, I wouldn't know how ill the girl is as she was not present in the shop. All I would have is a hysterical woman(understandable in the situation) in front of me. I have no sign of this person who is supposedly seriously ill.
I never said the girl would die but I would be questioning why this person did not have an epipen with them as this is reinforced constantly in counselling. There is also the issue that this person may be lying and want to use the adrenaline for a heroin overdose. Inappropriate use of the medication in this case. To make an emergency supply, the patient has to be there in front of you/be known to you.

Just to clarify, the pharmacist didn't know that the patient was seriously ill. She was relying on second source information. I would have supplied the medication if I had seen the situation but I understand why the pharmacist declined on this occasion with disastrous results.

ShaShaBear

We had to wait 45 minutes for an ambulance that was called the very second it was needed for my father. He was dead by the time they got to him.
My mother waited half an hour on an ambulance for my sister when her appendix burst, and then got a taxi, which got to Drogheda before an ambulance got to my mum's.
I have myself, on two occasions, had to get a taxi to a hospital. One was for myself with suspected appendicitis, and other was for my partner who was suffering all the symptoms of a heart attack, who has records in hospital of very long stays regarding his heart, and who couldn't even get a proper breath in while I was screaming down the phone. Both occasions, the phone operator said an ambulance was not necessary and talked me through the recovery position instead.
The only time I think I'd ever be glad to see an ambulance is if I was in a major RTA where several people in the same place would die without medical care.

On a side note, it is sad that the girl died, it's sad that she didn't happen to have her epipen with her, and it is sad she made an error when eating.
I'd have to agree in that if I were the pharmacist, I would have left the epipen down on the counter and looked the other way. If there was more than one pharmacist there, I would have taken the epipen and followed the mother to the scene - it would have been obvious at that stage what was going on. I certainly wouldn't have done nothing. I'd much rather lose my job for incorrectly supplying a junkie with an adrenalin shot thinking I was saving a life than remember every Christmas that I was partially responsible for a young girl's death

Zillah

Gone Drinking wrote: »

they probably would have given the mother the injection

That would be bizarre and unhelpful.

truebluesac

Deleted User wrote: »

I know that, which is why I know those "half an hour or less" promises are complete and utter bull****.

Yes I'm outside of Dublin. What I meant about you changing your argument is that on one hand you're criticising numbers being cut (a fair argument) while suggesting that people should believe the promises of services being provided by government which are simply unrealistic.

The half hr or less is a governmental promise that was promised on the back of closing A&E's . Which is not being adhered to , which is an issue you should take up with your local TD . Never heard our government lieing before ,

The service being provided by the lads on the ambulance should be to the high (PHECC) standard no matter what service ,

I have not changed my argument as i said the standard and service in dublin is different to that outside as it is a different provider doing the service , each service has different issues affecting them wheather it be geogrphical or sheer volume of calls .

Anyway we digress from this thread

eyescreamcone

Deleted User wrote: »

Either they were taking the piss or several pharmacists where I live have broken the rules for me a lot of times.

They weren't taking the piss.

It seems the rule back then, 2004/2005, was that the prescription from the hospital doctor was only good for the date it was signed on.

After this instance I often got the hospital doc to date it for a day that suited me to go and get the meds.

Tasden

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Either they were taking the piss or several pharmacists where I live have broken the rules for me a lot of times.

Pharmacists that know you locally and would know your medical history/ have a record of previous prescriptions can sometimes give you an emergency prescription if it is a regular prescription that you've had filled there a certain number of times within a certain time period. Like with the contraceptive pill, if you've been getting it filled there for years and one month you don't have a prescription they can fill an emergency one sometimes. That's very different than just handing over medication to some randomer off the street.

HarpFR

For some, they may wish to contact the HSE?
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Campaigns/Contact.html

Why?:
It would be helpful if the HSE passed on some law that gave more permissions to pharmacists and make some drugs OTC instead of prescription only, EG: Epinephrine is OTC in the USA,Norway,France and many other countries.
If Epinephrine was OTC the she would have been saved.

Epinephrine:
- OTC USA
- OTC Norway,France
- OTC in many other countries.
- RX in Ireland.

The law was the issue in this case.

ShaShaBear

ShaShaBear wrote: »

We had to wait 45 minutes for an ambulance that was called the very second it was needed for my father. He was dead by the time they got to him.
My mother waited half an hour on an ambulance for my sister when her appendix burst, and then got a taxi, which got to Drogheda before an ambulance got to my mum's.
I have myself, on two occasions, had to get a taxi to a hospital. One was for myself with suspected appendicitis, and other was for my partner who was suffering all the symptoms of a heart attack, who has records in hospital of very long stays regarding his heart, and who couldn't even get a proper breath in while I was screaming down the phone. Both occasions, the phone operator said an ambulance was not necessary and talked me through the recovery position instead.
The only time I think I'd ever be glad to see an ambulance is if I was in a major RTA where several people in the same place would die without medical care.

On a side note, it is sad that the girl died, it's sad that she didn't happen to have her epipen with her, and it is sad she made an error when eating.
I'd have to agree in that if I were the pharmacist, I would have left the epipen down on the counter and looked the other way. If there was more than one pharmacist there, I would have taken the epipen and followed the mother to the scene - it would have been obvious at that stage what was going on. I certainly wouldn't have done nothing. I'd much rather lose my job for incorrectly supplying a junkie with an adrenalin shot thinking I was saving a life than remember every Christmas that I was partially responsible for a young girl's death

What if the pharmacy had no supply of epipens?

mitosis

Deleted User wrote: »

In all cases it was on a street and I checked all the major online maps the day after the first time to see if they were there, and they were. Within 3 minutes of a motorway, all the non-driver had to do was put the address into his phone, if he was bothered.


Yet they weren't able to interpret that correctly. Whereas if he'd gone straight to hospital he would've already been there for half an hour and someone probably would've noticed there was something wrong with him.


Again, would've been in hospital quicker where they also have that equipment.


And it wasn't very good treatment.


I know that, which is why I know those "half an hour or less" promises are complete and utter bull****.

Yes I'm outside of Dublin. What I meant about you changing your argument is that on one hand you're criticising numbers being cut (a fair argument) while suggesting that people should believe the promises of services being provided by government which are simply unrealistic.

I don't think this is either the time or place for you to grind your axe. For shame.:mad:

truebluesac

eyescreamcone wrote: »

A number of years back my partner at the time was very ill with cancer.
She since passed away in 2006.

At one stage I went to the pharmacy with a prescription from the hospital doctor as she had run out of her meds.
They told me that that prescription was only good for the date it was signed on.
They said I needed to go to her GP (out of office hours anyway) and get basically a copy of what was in my hand, but signed by her GP.

I said that this can go one of two ways -
You either get the meds for me or I go in over the counter and get them myself.

She brought out a couple of days supply of the meds and was able to bullsh!t the red tape.



Back to the present day.
If it was my child having a reaction in front of me NOBODY would have stopped me getting what was needed from that pharmacy.

Pharmisist have oversight where they can issue a repeat perscribtion in lue of a perscription being handed over ,

Potatoeman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

First of all, I wouldn't know how ill the girl is as she was not present in the shop. All I would have is a hysterical woman(understandable in the situation) in front of me. I have no sign of this person who is supposedly seriously ill.
I never said the girl would die but I would be questioning why this person did not have an epipen with them as this is reinforced constantly in counselling. There is also the issue that this person may be lying and want to use the adrenaline for a heroin overdose. Inappropriate use of the medication in this case. To make an emergency supply, the patient has to be there in front of you/be known to you.

Just to clarify, the pharmacist didn't know that the patient was seriously ill. She was relying on second source information. I would have supplied the medication if I had seen the situation but I understand why the pharmacist declined on this occasion with disastrous results.

They were probably worried about being sued if she was lying. I know many people will say use your own cop on but the court system would string you up.

Teyla Emmagan

What I find odd is that someone with a severe peanut allergy didn't know how to identify a satay sauce. It might look a bit like curry sauce but it doesn't smell like it. Surely if you had a child who could be killed by something so simple you would go out of your way to make sure they knew every substance that could harm them. Especially ones where the primary ingredients are peanuts? Not a great idea bringing someone like that to a buffet anyway with all the potential cross contamination anyway I would think. Not trying to criticise the girl's parents, it's just such a terrible waste of a life.

ShaShaBear

Deleted User wrote: »

What if the pharmacy had no supply of epipens?

Then I would have called for an ambulance instead of suggesting the mother take her to A&E.

Potatoeman

Potatoeman wrote: »

They were probably worried about being sued if she was lying. I know many people will say use your own cop on but the court system would string you up.

In my opinion, it would be more about patient safety. I would have to see if I could ethically defend my decision to prescribe the medication. If I could ethically defend my decision, I would not have to worry about prosecution. Knowing little information at the time, I could see how a pharmacist refused to supply.

HarpFR

Ideas:

Lets say for example medications. Now, what about the company's making more advanced drugs and such as an antidote.
Example: Nicotine patch.
- Normal Nicotine patch, works normally like as of now.
- This new one has, 2 extra "buttons" on it.
Buttons:
- Extra Nicotine for that time. Releases 20% more Nicotine instantly(but of course less will be used later in the day)
- Nicotine antidote (Press it and some Nicotine antidote/helper works -> Stops the sickness,slow,etc.

Now, that is just a far fetch example to give you an idea.

Other:
What do you think about there been 6 pharmacies in a small town with only 1 doctor.
Now, while having many pharmacies is great, having no doctors is really a down-side.

truebluesac

truebluesac wrote: »

Anyway we digress from this thread

We do.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

They weren't taking the piss.

It seems the rule back then, 2004/2005, was that the prescription from the hospital doctor was only good for the date it was signed on.

After this instance I often got the hospital doc to date it for a day that suited me to go and get the meds.

Weird, several times I got 3 months' prescription at a time from my doctor and got each month in a different pharmacy.

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

What I find odd is that someone with a severe peanut allergy didn't know how to identify a satay sauce. It might look a bit like curry sauce but it doesn't smell like it. Surely if you had a child who could be killed by something so simple you would go out of your way to make sure they knew every substance that could harm them.

It's tough to find somewhere with no nuts. To be honest I've been caught out with Satay sauces from some chineses, they look and smile like a nice curry sauce but then I taste it and no, just no.

ShaShaBear

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Then I would have called for an ambulance instead of suggesting the mother take her to A&E.

The pharmacist didn't know where the girl was. Again, I'm just roleplaying the scenario to show what would be going through a pharmacist's head.

Gyalist

mitosis wrote: »

I don't think this is either the time or place for you to grind your axe. For shame.:mad:

To be fair, I'm in Dublin and the one time we needed an ambulance for my son the service was outstanding. However, a few years ago we were staying at a well-known hotel in Mayo for a Bank Holiday weekend. When the bookings were made we confirmed that no nuts would be used in any meals for my son. On the last night the chef left out his dessert as arranged but the server thought that it looked too plain so she put some chocolate sauce on it. He reacted immediately to it and we couldn't get an ambulance so it was the restaurant manager who drove us along the dark back roads of Mayo to get us to the hospital in Castlebar.

eyescreamcone

eyescreamcone wrote: »

They weren't taking the piss.

It seems the rule back then, 2004/2005, was that the prescription from the hospital doctor was only good for the date it was signed on.

After this instance I often got the hospital doc to date it for a day that suited me to go and get the meds.

This definitely is not true. I smell shenigans. Had this prescription already been dispensed? CD prescriptions are valid for 28 days after the date it is prescribed.

ShaShaBear

Deleted User wrote: »

The pharmacist didn't know where the girl was. Again, I'm just roleplaying the scenario to show what would be going through a pharmacist's head.

I understand that, but in my head I would assume that either the woman was lying, or the daughter wasn't very far. Mother hardly ran for half an hour to that pharmacy looking for help. Ringing an ambulance probably would have scared her off if she were pulling a fast one, and the mother could have prompted her to the child's location during the phonecall.
Again, I'm pretty much doing the same as you, just with a different viewpoint on protocol I guess.

I do feel very sorry for the pharmacist though, she obviously didn't deny the meds with malicious intent, and this is something she will deal with for the rest of her life.

Gyalist

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

What I find odd is that someone with a severe peanut allergy didn't know how to identify a satay sauce. It might look a bit like curry sauce but it doesn't smell like it. Surely if you had a child who could be killed by something so simple you would go out of your way to make sure they knew every substance that could harm them. Especially ones where the primary ingredients are peanuts? Not a great idea bringing someone like that to a buffet anyway with all the potential cross contamination anyway I would think. Not trying to criticise the girl's parents, it's just such a terrible waste of a life.

Trust me, we have always been scrupulous in avoiding situations like this (not travelling on airlines that serve peanuts, avoiding all Thai food, etc) but you can still be caught out.

bobwilliams

maybe it's just me but I detest the internet(sometimes),this is someone's kid,cousin,grandchild.
All this talk about should they have given the meds,blah ,blah.....does it really matter now and is it any of our business......NO
So sad.

HarpFR

Guys, what about having Doctors in the pharmacies?.

Not only in this case that the Doctor could give Epinephrine but also be there to take in patients, write prescriptions,etc and this:
- Quick and Easy.
- Doctor,pharmacist,patient interaction.
- If a person has a problem (pain,mental health,etc) they may go see the doctor.

In general, Pharmacies = + mental health professions,doctors,etc.

ShaShaBear

HarpFR wrote: »

Guys, what about having Doctors in the pharmacies?.

Not only in this case that the Doctor could give Epinephrine but also be there to take in patients, write prescriptions,etc and this:
- Quick and Easy.
- Doctor,pharmacist,patient interaction.
- If a person has a problem (pain,mental health,etc) they may go see the doctor.

In general, Pharmacies = + mental health professions,doctors,etc.

I don't know if it would be practical to have a doctor stationed in every pharmacy. But maybe one doctor attending a pharmacy in every large town, or perhaps a doctor that has a timetabled appearance in major pharmacies within the town? Sorta like a visiting optician, only more regular?

HarpFR

HarpFR wrote: »

Guys, what about having Doctors in the pharmacies?.

Not only in this case that the Doctor could give Epinephrine but also be there to take in patients, write prescriptions,etc and this:
- Quick and Easy.
- Doctor,pharmacist,patient interaction.
- If a person has a problem (pain,mental health,etc) they may go see the doctor.

In general, Pharmacies = + mental health professions,doctors,etc.

As an aside, the future of pharmacy isn't in dispensing medication. It will be about providing services such as control of chronic treatment. The big u=issue here is would irish GP's rail against giving more responsibility to pharmacists.

HarpFR

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I don't know if it would be practical to have a doctor stationed in every pharmacy. But maybe one doctor attending a pharmacy in every large town, or perhaps a doctor that has a timetabled appearance in major pharmacies within the town? Sorta like a visiting optician, only more regular?

Yes, well said.

Lets say you go to a small town (based on real town):
It takes you 4-5 minutes to drive around the whole town and know where each (5) pharmacies are located. You could drive an hour around the town, or walk for hours around the tiny town and have no idea where a Doctor is. In that town there's [one] doctor that is rarely there but yet there is 5 pharmacies. And in the pharmacies you can buy any of the OTC items any most shops and stores, and those OTC items are pretty weak.
If someone is in extreme pain, mental health issues, etc etc etc they are unable to access a doctor in that town and so unable to purchase and medication from those 5 pharmacies.