Bouncer punches woman who tried to punch him.

riffmongous

Are Am Eye wrote: »

This "moving" thing has gone on long enough.
Explain what you mean by moving.

1. Where is he to move this woman to.

2. In relation to point 1, for what purpose is he moving her.

Have you ever clinched someone? Do you know how to move someone? A trained bouncer will know the proper way to do it.

1. Away from the entrance

2. So he can go inside and call the police, closing the door if necessary.

Are Am Eye

Collie D wrote: »

Where the **** is Makikomi?!

He's moving someone.

riffmongous

Collie D wrote: »

Where the **** is Makikomi?!

I pm'ed him already I am actually really curious to hear his experience and opinion, I'd have no problem admitting I'm wrong if an actual bouncer says so. I think FTA69 was also a bouncer

Are Am Eye

riffmongous wrote: »

Have you ever clinched someone? Do you know how to move someone? A trained bouncer will know the proper way to do it.

1. Away from the entrance

2. So he can go inside and call the police, closing the door if necessary.

Outside the entrance is a public place. She is entitled to be there.
He can't illegally move someone because he has to make a phone call.
And for your info he has a radio and when he wants the police, which is not often, causes more problems for him, that call is made from where he is.

Cupcake_Crisis

I always said that if I throw a dig I fully deserve a dig back. Be it from a man or woman.

Not that I ever would mind. I'm as soft as a wet fart.

armaghlad

Omackeral wrote: »

You challenged none of the points I made and zeroed in one thing with prejudice. Couldn't give a f*ck what your ignorant self expects. Judge all you want, you know nothing about me and how I carry out my duties. That chip on your shoulder is becoming more apparent. If a prisoner hits out, we're covered by law to fight back. Nobody is paid to be battered.

I've been assaulted outside of work by a woman before. She punched me right into the face. I said to her ''don't you dare do that again''. She went to do it again and I grabbed her by the wrists. When I let her go she went to do it yet again. I restrained her by the arms and shoved her away from me. She went on her arse in almost slow motion and start screaming that I assaulted her and she was now playing victim. What do you do in that situation? Keep getting belted? Nah, f*ck that noise.

I personally wouldn't feel right punching a woman full on in the face because I'd probably cave her face in but at the same time I'm not letting some scumbag have free reign on me. If you're provoked and pushed enough, you fight back. So while I'd not burst someone as hard as can, I still have no sympathy for aggressors getting hit back.

And can you differentiate between battering one of your prisoners as you please where no one can see and a bouncer striking some wee skinny drunk girls in public cos she tried to hit him? Because it seems to me you can't

riffmongous

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Outside the entrance is a public place. She is entitled to be there.
He can't illegally move someone because he has to make a phone call.
And for your info he has a radio and when he wants the police, which is not often, causes more problems for him, that call is made from where he is.

It's for self defence, after she tries to throw a punch at him that he moves her away

Safer and less confrontational to go inside and call. Helps defuse the situation

Are Am Eye

riffmongous wrote: »

It's for self defence, after she tries to throw a punch at him that he moves her away

Safer and less confrontational to go inside and call. Helps defuse the situation

It's not for self defense. You said he wanted to move her away from the door.
Well good for him. But he can't.

Allah snackbar

Why does this conversation come up every time , pretend it's 2 men or 2 women and no one gives a flying monkeys , but when it's some doll in high heels that thinks she can square up to a man who is superior to her in physical strength and fighting ability the white knights lose their marbles , he took it handy on her and she was lucky , it might teach her a lesson to not act like a degenerate scum bag in future

Dravokivich

riffmongous wrote: »

Have you ever clinched someone? Do you know how to move someone? A trained bouncer will know the proper way to do it.

1. Away from the entrance

2. So he can go inside and call the police, closing the door if necessary.

You need to give some thought to what you are presenting.

there is only 1 bouncer visible in the video. So the only means to potentially restrain her would be a grapple, or pull an arm behind her back and stretch a leg forward so she'll have minimal control of her balance. Once he lets go to walk back in, she's just going to swing at him.

To safely restrain someone, it takes at least 2 people to lock the individuals arms into theirs if doing so while standing. And then it's a stalemate for however long it takes for the restrained individual to eventually settle. If they do at all.

So to lead to your second point, how do you expect someone to restrain an individual, then just walk off? As you'd be unrestraining them.

Omackeral

armaghlad wrote: »

And can you differentiate between battering one of your prisoners as you please where no one can see and a bouncer striking some wee skinny drunk girls in public cos she tried to hit him? Because it seems to me you can't

I've never battered one of my prisoners as I please. There's CCTV and an Ombudsman these days anyway so you'd be taking your chances with your job if you tried an unjustified assault on an inmate. The entire culture is different these days than it was compared to years ago when a gang of big brutes descended on an unruly inmate.

Anyway, you don't address questions put to you directly and tbh you're full of inaccurate preconceived notions. No point in us speaking to each other really. Good luck.

riffmongous

Are Am Eye wrote: »

It's not for self defense. You said he wanted to move her away from the door.
Well good for him. But he can't.

Someone tries to punch you and you restrain them and move them away from the door so you can then go inside and call the police, close the door if you need to. I cant make it any clearer, unless you have some new point I'm not going to bother replying again

Omackeral

riffmongous wrote: »

Someone tries to punch you and you restrain them and move them away from the door so you can then go inside and call the police, close the door if you need to. I cant make it any clearer, unless you have some new point I'm not going to bother replying again

What if there's two of them? Well within your rights to have a strike back. This guy struck and was bang on the money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR1WmcUPSUY

riffmongous

Dravokivich wrote: »

You need to give some thought to what you are presenting.

there is only 1 bouncer visible in the video. So the only means to potentially restrain her would be a grapple, or pull an arm behind her back and stretch a leg forward so she'll have minimal control of her balance. Once he lets go to walk back in, she's just going to swing at him.

To safely restrain someone, it takes at least 2 people to lock the individuals arms into theirs if doing so while standing. And then it's a stalemate for however long it takes for the restrained individual to eventually settle. If they do at all.

So to lead to your second point, how do you expect someone to restrain an individual, then just walk off? As you'd be unrestraining them.

There are two bouncers there

Alcoheda

I bet she'll think twice the next time.

end of the road

Allah snackbar wrote: »

Why does this conversation come up every time , pretend it's 2 men or 2 women and no one gives a flying monkeys , but when it's some doll in high heels that thinks she can square up to a man who is superior to her in physical strength and fighting ability the white knights lose their marbles , he took it handy on her and she was lucky , it might teach her a lesson to not act like a degenerate scum bag in future

it won't no . it's not supposed to either.

Alcoheda wrote: »

I bet she'll think twice the next time.

she won't.

riffmongous

Omackeral wrote: »

What if there's two of them? Well within your rights to have a strike back. This guy struck and was bang on the money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR1WmcUPSUY

Totally different situation, I shouldn't even have to point that out

armaghlad

Omackeral wrote: »

I've never battered one of my prisoners as I please. There's CCTV and an Ombudsman these days anyway so you'd be taking your chances with your job if you tried an unjustified assault on an inmate. The entire culture is different these days than it was compared to years ago when a gang of big brutes descended on an unruly inmate.

Anyway, you don't address questions put to you directly and tbh you're full of inaccurate preconceived notions. No point in us speaking to each other really. Good luck.

Well your first reply to me set the tone. Some jobs you can expect a bit of rough and tumble and you of all people should know that. It comes down to discretion and it is a poor misjudgment by the doorman. If that happened in our place he wouldn't work there again.

Omackeral

riffmongous wrote: »

Totally different situation, I shouldn't even have to point that out

But you're saying simply restrain someone and walk away. What if you try to do that and someone else comes at ya? Then can you strike back? What if it's two women?

Are Am Eye

riffmongous wrote: »

Someone tries to punch you and you restrain them and move them away from the door so you can then go inside and call the police, close the door if you need to. I cant make it any clearer, unless you have some new point I'm not going to bother replying again

You're talking complete ****e at this stage.

One minute you're restraining her.
Then you're off making phone calls.
What are you on about?
Do you know what restrain means?

riffmongous

Are Am Eye wrote: »

You're talking complete ****e at this stage.

One minute you're restraining her.
Then you're off making phone calls.
What are you on about?
Do you know what restrain means?

:rolleyes:

Omackeral

armaghlad wrote: »

Well your first reply to me set the tone. Some jobs you can expect a bit of rough and tumble and you of all people should know that. It comes down to discretion and it is a poor misjudgment by the doorman. If that happened in our place he wouldn't work there again.

Fair enough. You can expect rough and tumble as you put it, agree with you there, but that still doesn't give someone the right to hit you. You're line of I wouldn't expect anything less from a screw was pretty sh*tty though. We'll leave it there.

sonic85

There's only one bouncer that I can see in the original video - few people hanging around though which might make it dodgy if he tried to grab and restrain her. Hed be leaving himself wide open to an attack from a second person.

It's impossible to know anything from such a short clip but I doubt she was on her own

CeilingFly

Any reason why the video doesn't show what was happening beforehand?

Remember this is on theliberal! Hardly a reputable site.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm sorry but why the gender distinction?

Why not?

I wouldn't hit a woman, an old person, or a very young person. There are just assumptions about frailty etc. It may be sexist or ageist, it might be just my age and that old thing of never raising a hand to a woman...but it's just not for me. And if walking away from trouble was an option, I wouldn't ever see myself raising a fist anyway. It should only be done in the proper context...like at Gaelic football matches...

Are Am Eye

riffmongous wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Don't go putting young girls in arm locks now riff.
Unless you're paying them.
Consentual and all it's ok.

gw80

riffmongous wrote: »

Someone tries to punch you and you restrain them and move them away from the door so you can then go inside and call the police, close the door if you need to. I cant make it any clearer, unless you have some new point I'm not going to bother replying again

Im also struggling to understand the " moving them" bit, she's not a chess piece,he seems to be on his own, he cannot leave the door with someone like her outside,
He cannot lock the door, what about people wanting to come in or out, what do you expect him to do, run in and peek out the window until she'sgone, " ok everyone i think she gone", he would probably be in more trouble from the bar owner if he did close the door,

TheFitz13

I hate this thing where people think it's okay/funny for a woman to hit a man but when a man retaliates he's a 'scumbag'

NOBODY should ever his ANYBODY, regardless of gender, Sexual orientation, race, religion etc.

If someone does go to hit another person, and are shocked that they got hit back.... they need a MAJOR reality check.

riffmongous

gw80 wrote: »

Im also struggling to understand the " moving them" bit, she's not a chess piece,he seems to be on his own, he cannot leave the door with someone like her outside,
He cannot lock the door, what about people wanting to come in or out, what do you expect him to do, run in and peek out the window until she'sgone, " ok everyone i think she gone", he would probably be in more trouble from the bar owner if he did close the door,

Have you ever seen a bouncer kick someone out of a club or bar? They generally don't punch people out the door

There is a second bouncer there, you can see him at the end of the video. Call the police and let them deal with her, she'll probably disappear once you tell her the police are coming anyway

Edit: I guess it's not so clear in the OP video version, but you can see the 2nd bouncer better here
link

Are Am Eye

riffmongous wrote: »

Have you ever seen a bouncer kick someone out of a club or bar? They generally don't punch people out the door

There is a second bouncer there, you can see him at the end of the video. Call the police and let them deal with her, she'll probably disappear once you tell her the police are coming anyway

Edit: I guess it's not so clear in the OP video version, but you can see the 2nd bouncer better here
link

You can forcibly remove someone from your premises or house. You can't
man handle/move/ restrain people in a public place unless a specific statute permits it eg theft act, criminal damage act.

Academic

nacho libre wrote: »

A boss of a reputable security company would deem what he did as excessive force, regardless of the sex involved, that could have led to fatal consequences. You are advised to use physical intervention techniques to thwart an attacker. Punching is not one of the method advised. When discussing it on boards it might be deemed the right course of action, but not if you are working in the industry and want to retain your job. I'll be surprised if the bouncer does not face repercussions.

Just to be clear, I never suggested anything to the contrary.


I was responding to those here who have claimed that a man hitting a woman is ipso facto worse than a woman hitting a man—it was that claim I was disagreeing with.

Pat Mustard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wouldn't hit a woman, an old person, or a very young person. There are just assumptions about frailty etc. It may be sexist or ageist, it might be just my age and that old thing of never raising a hand to a woman...but it's just not for me. And if walking away from trouble was an option, I wouldn't ever see myself raising a fist anyway. It should only be done in the proper context...like at Gaelic football matches...

What would you do if four women attacked your mother and your wife while you were present.

I bet that the gloves would be off then.

infogiver

end of the road wrote: »

it won't no . it's not supposed to either.




she won't.

She won't. I garauntee you she was on snapchat within 12 hours bragging about getting a slap from a bouncer after drinking 14 Jaeger bombs all before darkness descended.
In the kind of company she keeps this would have you crowned legend of the week.

myshirt

He said really punch her did he. Nothing to this for me. She swung, he slipped the shot, and gave her a slap. It's a natural reaction. You'd do it without thinking.

What was strange is that usually when a woman like that attacks you it's the overhand right that they use and it is well known. A good bouncer will know this, put the arm up to deflect, and slowly lower the lady to the ground. He likely didn't need to hit her, but it was a slap at most so nothing to get excited about.

Titzon Toast

She got what she deserved.

MonkieSocks

Pat Mustard wrote: »

What would you do if four women attacked your mother and your wife while you were present.

I bet that the gloves would be off then.

Two Lesbians broke into our house and attacked My missus in the bath.

I did my best, but could only knock one out

Widdershins

riffmongous wrote: »

No expert on restraining either, but yes there are risks, especially with dangerous holds, but they've got to be less than punching a drunk girl on high heels. If she fell over and hit her head things could have been much worse for him

It's the legal risks I'm thinking of. I don't know what bouncers are instructed to do in these situations when they receive training, but restraint is frowned on in other settings. It's not really considered the better option anymore, as far as I can tell.

If she fell, and again I don't know the legal view, I think it would be on her. In the same way it would be if she attacked me, a woman, and I deflected her with a punch, and she fell. It's part of the consequence and the risk you take if you choose to physically assault someone, which she did.

I can't see restraint working on her, an aggressive and riled woman intent on hurting someone isn't going to have a fit of the vapours and swoon, she's going to claw and kick and bite and scratch (or knee him in the testicles!), so he risks further injury to himself by 'holding' her. If moved, she'd keep coming back. That's my theory.

I think the men saying they'd never have physically retaliated have never been attacked by a woman and imagine she'd flap her arms a bit and give up if kept at arms length. Ye have no idea how vicious some women can be.

oneilla

Reminds me of an incident I once saw where a security guard was trying to eject a woman from a premises - she spat at the security guard and turned to leave and he then gave her a shove/punch in the back as she's leaving. It inflamed the situation further and was unnecessary much like this one in Liverpool.

There was a video a few months ago of a security guard at the Woolshed punching and knocking someone out. In that one he showed a degree of restraint in that he only raised a fist after several attempted attacks/strikes etc.

One eyed Jack

Widdershins wrote: »

If she fell, and again I don't know the legal view, I think it would be on her. In the same way it would be if she attacked me, a woman, and I deflected her with a punch, and she fell. It's part of the consequence and the risk you take if you choose to physically assault someone, which she did.

Worst case scenario if she had fallen and for example hit her head off the pavement and died, it's quite possible the doorman would still be under investigation for potential liability.

I can't see restraint working on her, an aggressive and riled woman intent on hurting someone isn't going to have a fit of the vapours and swoon, she's going to claw and kick and bite and scratch (or knee him in the testicles!), so he risks further injury to himself by 'holding' her. If moved, she'd keep coming back. That's my theory.

It's a solid theory, and it does happen, but good security staff will still maintain their composure and will be able to diffuse the situation, either by themselves, or with the support of other staff if necessary. There's still no need for the staff to slap anyone.

I think the men saying they'd never have physically retaliated have never been attacked by a woman and imagine she'd flap her arms a bit and give up if kept at arms length. Ye have no idea how vicious some women can be.

I have, and I know only too well how vicious women can be. Still never felt the need to resort to slapping or punching them though, nor men for that matter. There are numerous ways to deal with every situation like that without slapping someone because you figure you're going to get away with it.

Widdershins

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Worst case scenario if she had fallen and for example hit her head off the pavement and died, it's quite possible the doorman would still be under investigation for potential liability.





It's a solid theory, and it does happen, but good security staff will still maintain their composure and will be able to diffuse the situation, either by themselves, or with the support of other staff if necessary. There's still no need for the staff to slap anyone.





I have, and I know only too well how vicious women can be. Still never felt the need to resort to slapping or punching them though, nor men for that matter. There are numerous ways to deal with every situation like that without slapping someone because you figure you're going to get away with it.

Of course he'd still be under investigation and it would be a terrible situation for all concerned. I still don't blame him. I don't think it was a forceful punch and her footwear and state of inebriation would have accounted for it as much as anything else. I know the ideal is to control the situation with the absolute minimum of physical contact, but restraint involves a lot of that too, albeit without the obvious risk of unbalancing the woman. Maybe there are other doormen who could do it in the way you describe, and avoid complications or attacks from other people in the background while they kept the woman under control. Maybe he didn't do it in the absolute most professional way possible, but I still can't blame him.


The school bully was a little runt of a girl. She was a ball of spite. She got away with it because she was a small female. She might not have been big enough to have knocked anyone's teeth out but I wouldn't be surprised if she'd tried. She was able to hurt people and get away with it. Until she tried to attack me, accusing me of some hysterical nonsense about shifting her boyfriend whom I'd never met, grabbed a handful of my hair , at which point and I sent her flying and she landed in a heap. The injury to her pride had the desired effect. Sometimes people need just stopping in their tracks.

Just editing to add that that was the first real problem I had from her, and the last. I was aware of her because she picked on other students.

B.A._Baracus

She took a swing at him.
He took a swing back.

In the eyes of the law assault, even attempted assault, can call for defense. So cherry pick all you want. However if that was a man assaulting a female bouncer would we even have this thread...

gitzy16v

In fairness to the girl she took it fairly well.
Them heels,a few scoops and took a dig off a bouncer ,didn't go down!!
I'd say she reckoned she deserved it herself,what can anyone expect,throw a punch.. get punched.

AudreyHepburn

CeilingFly wrote: »

Any reason why the video doesn't show what was happening beforehand?

Remember this is on theliberal! Hardly a reputable site.

Probably because if it did people would realize that the girl isn't the innocent victim she's trying to portray herself as and that the bouncer isn't the scumbag thug everyone seems to want him to be.

Varik

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Probably because if it did people would realize that the girl isn't the innocent victim she's trying to portray herself as and that the bouncer isn't the scumbag thug everyone seems to want him to be.

It's not always the case.

Something happened to make the person take out the phone and record it, and because they were molested as a child they did it in portrait.

Unless you're recording everything or you just happen to catch something while already doing so you're never going to get the instigating event.

FTA69

As I've said on other threads before, I did doorwork for years and was faced with a similar situation a couple of times. There's a few points to be made on the issue really:

1) The woman in question is clearly a drunken thug. Behaving violently toward someone like that is the lowest of the low and nobody should take it for granted that they can use violence and not expect some measure of it back. Nobody should be expected to stand there and be assaulted either, everyone has a right to be treated with some measure of dignity and respect at work.

2) That having been said, the job is the job. This sort of bullsh*t drunken nonsense comes with the territory unfortunately and if some mouldy woman throwing a slap at him is the worst thing he faces in his time on the job he's a lucky man.

You just can't be throwing strikes willy nilly while doing doorwork and then saying "she started it" after. Anyone who did that while working with us while I was at it would have been sent home and never employed again. Your job is to keep the peace and facilitate the smooth running of the business. No publican wants his staff pucking people on the street, least of all a lone drunken woman.

He could have done a myriad of other things there, he clearly saw the punch coming so could have blocked it, restrained her/pushed her and called for help. If you can't deal with a drunken woman without throwing shots then you probably shouldn't be doing the job really.

Keyzer

gitzy16v wrote: »

In fairness to the girl she took it fairly well.
Them heels,a few scoops and took a dig off a bouncer ,didn't go down!!
I'd say she reckoned she deserved it herself,what can anyone expect,throw a punch.. get punched.

She did take it like a champ... probably not the first time she's been on the receiving end of a haymaker.

BattleCorp

Varik wrote: »

It's not always the case.

Something happened to make the person take out the phone and record it, and because they were molested as a child they did it in portrait.

Unless you're recording everything or you just happen to catch something while already doing so you're never going to get the instigating event.

Obviously the girl was doing some sort of charitable work in the moments leading up to the incident. I'm guessing she was either tending to the sick or homeless.

Seriously though, it's logical to guess that there was a verbal altercation taking place and someone decided that it was worth filming. Whether it was an innocent bystander or someone involved in the row, I don't know.

AudreyHepburn

Varik wrote: »

It's not always the case.

Something happened to make the person take out the phone and record it, and because they were molested as a child they did it in portrait.

Unless you're recording everything or you just happen to catch something while already doing so you're never going to get the instigating event.

Of course something happened to prompt the recording, that's my point.

Most posters here are trying to make out that the bouncer is simply a violent thug who hit out at a poor innocent woman completely unprovoked - I would suggest there is more in that video than we are being shown. He clearly reacted to something.

One eyed Jack

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course something happened to prompt the recording, that's my point.

Most posters here are trying to make out that the bouncer is simply a violent thug who hit out at a poor innocent woman completely unprovoked - I would suggest there is more in that video than we are being shown. He clearly reacted to something.

He did of course, and his reaction was unprofessional. He's not 12, hell even to think a 12 year old would do that is stretching it, as my own son wouldn't have so easily been provoked like that in the first place, let alone react the way this guy did. If you can't see that this wasn't an ordinary set of circumstances then it's no wonder you wouldn't understand why the doorman is completely at fault here.

One eyed Jack

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

She took a swing at him.
He took a swing back.

In the eyes of the law assault, even attempted assault, can call for defense. So cherry pick all you want. However if that was a man assaulting a female bouncer would we even have this thread...

Of course we would, because the circumstances would be different. Are you trying to say that female security staff don't experience these kinds of situations too? They do of course.