VAT exemption on items under €22 from outside EU disappearing on 1 July 2021

01-06-2021 1:02pm #1

Of course this was signposted but date is coming up now

so may be prudent not to order anything with long delivery times in if it is likely to arrive after July 1 or you may be hit with a collection fee and the requisite VAT.

The new rules will apply to all goods delivered from outside the European Union after July 1st, even if the transaction occurred online before then.

I wonder are sites like Aliexpress etc moving to a duty paid model - one would expect so as this is EU-wide, not just Ireland.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/revenue-warns-online-shoppers-of-price-increase-due-to-vat-change-1.4580123

However this quote from a revenue official confuses me - if VAT and duty paid in advance what additional charges are due to the postage provider?

“If the supplier is operating a duty paid model, the total price paid for the goods at the time of purchase will generally include Irish VAT and any duties due, meaning no further Revenue charges will arise. However... the consumer must then pay any additional charges to the postal service or parcel operator before the goods are delivered.”

01-06-2021 2:35pm

of course it also applies to the case of Amazon UK (most especially if you have Amazon Prime) to buy items under the amount to get a nice discount (UK Vat will be removed and no Irish VAT added) before it runs out at the end of June 2021

(doesn't work with every item but mostly will if fulfilled by Amazon - a quick way to test is to click "buy now" on an item to see if the price reduces)

davetherave · 03-06-2021 9:12pm

Can't see the article in the Times, but I wonder has it been taken out of context. From the revenue site - https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/press-releases/2021/pr-053121-revenue-upcoming-vat-rule-goods-non-EU-countries.aspx

“If you shop online, you need to check whether the advertised price includes all tax and duty costs due before you make your decision to buy the goods concerned. If the supplier is operating a duty paid model, the total price paid for the goods at the time of purchase will generally include Irish VAT and any duties due meaning no further Revenue charges will arise on delivery.

However, where this is not the case, the amount of VAT and any duties due will be calculated by Revenue based on the information provided on the customs declaration. This is normally completed by the postal service or parcel operator delivering the goods. The consumer must then pay any additional charges to the postal service or parcel operator before the goods are delivered.”

Which is just what it is now. Everything done at the point of sale, OR, An Post/DPD/DHL/etc do the admin, and bung on their admin charges.

whiterebel · 03-06-2021 9:15pm

That is the current situation. 1st July the lower limit is being removed EU wide. If the seller doesn’t account for VAT, it will be cleared and charges paid.

vicwatson · 10-06-2021 1:37pm

From 1st July the €22.00 exemption is gone, is that the end of the imports from Aliexpress etc, as I don't see many having EU warehouses unfortunately.

vicwatson · 10-06-2021 1:58pm

Apologies Mods, I see there is already a thread on this (I did look but didn't see it

)

vicwatson · 10-06-2021 2:00pm

No many Aliexpress places opening EU warehouses then? Is the party over?

How much are An Post charging for Customs Clearance?

eoferrall · 10-06-2021 2:05pm

vicwatson wrote: »

No many Aliexpress places opening EU warehouses then? Is the party over?

How much are An Post charging for Customs Clearance?

€10, same as the rest for the handling of the process.

DHL are very poor, make up their numbers and then if you query they say it costs 50e to recalc? absolute sham!

I have no problem paying the taxes due if buying and buy with that in mind, but when the couriers make it up, ie in my case add on postage (for 100e!!) to an price on invoice that states includes postage and there is no recourse as they recourse costs more than paying it I do have a problem with.

Would rather some online system, that the delivery agents scan package in and you have X number of days to pay online direct to revenue with the invoice as support for the payment or the courier returns to sender the package.

davetherave · 10-06-2021 5:16pm

eoferrall wrote: »

€10, same as the rest for the handling of the process.

DHL are very poor, make up their numbers and then if you query they say it costs 50e to recalc? absolute sham!

I have no problem paying the taxes due if buying and buy with that in mind, but when the couriers make it up, ie in my case add on postage (for 100e!!) to an price on invoice that states includes postage and there is no recourse as they recourse costs more than paying it I do have a problem with.

I get a regular delivery from a company based out of Hong Kong who use DHL and have never had any issues with them re. Import Charges. DHL work off of the numbers that are submitted by the sender, if the sender doesn't submit then that's entirely on the sender, and DHL use the rules that revenue set of the standard cost of sending that package to the country of origin less 30%.

What do the Entry Declaration and the Single Administrative Document have listed under freight when you downloaded them from the DHL payments page?

eoferrall wrote: »

Would rather some online system, that the delivery agents scan package in and you have X number of days to pay online direct to revenue with the invoice as support for the payment or the courier returns to sender the package.

Who assesses what VAT and Duty, if any, is required under this system?

Atlantic Dawn · 10-06-2021 5:22pm

Will Amazon have to make some declared calculation of the estimated shipping cost on the package if you have 'free' delivery via Prime?

whiterebel · 10-06-2021 5:46pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Will Amazon have to make some declared calculation of the estimated shipping cost on the package if you have 'free' delivery via Prime?

They do already.

Atlantic Dawn · 10-06-2021 8:15pm

whiterebel wrote: »

They do already.

But seeing as it could be completely variable on a month to month basis how would they do this, I might order 10 items this month and only a single item next month. The proportion of my Prime subscription that went toward each delivery would be completely different and only known when a full month had passed where items would already have been delivered and too late to then calculate on these items.

whiterebel · 10-06-2021 10:23pm

They add on an amount for freight, calculate the VAT on that and then take the freight off it again.

10-06-2021 10:40pm

I order some gifts occasionally for delivery to people living in Australia from Aliexpress.

Aliexpress for the last while add on Australian VAT (which is only 10%) at payment to the price of item when it's an Australian address and that's it - done - no additional "collection" charge. The VAT is paid to Australia.

I wonder if there is any chance of that happening for Ireland

Wishful thinking probably.

But that is effectively is what is happening with Amazon UK really I suppose.

But also An Post are getting €€€ from Amazon for delivery whereas the Chinese items provide pretty much nothing for An Post and indeed An Post HATE the stuff coming from China so probably would not want this system....

But surely Aliexpress have looked into this considering so much of Europe is affected here.

Sleeper12 · 10-06-2021 10:48pm

We get one more Prime day before July 1st.

vicwatson · 10-06-2021 11:19pm

sugarman wrote: »

AliExpress is a market place like eBay, they don't own any warehouses. It's full of thousands of individual sellers, some would be operating from warehouses, some from a physical shop, some from a garage or shed and others from home etc..

Bigger sellers already have warehouses in Europe, but for some reason very few provide delivery to Ireland.

As it stands it looks like the party is over.

Thankfully Custom chargers have been reduced to €3.50 from €10 by An Post, so not the worst if you need something specific you can't find elsewhere.

What I meant by warehouse is resellers I guess

Oh so €3.50 now and not €10.00 for clearance

davetherave · 11-06-2021 8:40am

whiterebel wrote: »

They add on an amount for freight, calculate the VAT on that and then take the freight off it again.

It looks like that is how it is handled for someone who doesn't have Prime but is spending more than £20 to get free delivery, but if someone does have prime then there is no "promotion disscount" shown of -£6.00.

Take this toaster - amazon.co.uk/Breville-VTT853-Lustra-Toaster-Stainless/dp/B079SFP7JB

On a "Prime" account:

Order Summary
Items: GBP 32.50
Postage & Packing: GBP 0.00
Import Fees Deposit: GBP 7.48
Order Total: GBP 39.98

On a non-prime account:

Order Summary
Items: £32.50
Postage & Packing: £6.00
Import Fees Deposit: £8.86
Total: £47.36
Promotion Applied: -£6.00
Order Total: £41.36

whiterebel · 11-06-2021 4:12pm

Maybe they used to do it, I haven't been buying much lately, so hadn't noticed. Maybe they got the ok from Revenue to change it. It seems strange though, not to have to account for it per shipment.

eoferrall · 11-06-2021 11:58pm

davetherave wrote: »

I get a regular delivery from a company based out of Hong Kong who use DHL and have never had any issues with them re. Import Charges. DHL work off of the numbers that are submitted by the sender, if the sender doesn't submit then that's entirely on the sender, and DHL use the rules that revenue set of the standard cost of sending that package to the country of origin less 30%.

What do the Entry Declaration and the Single Administrative Document have listed under freight when you downloaded them from the DHL payments page?

they opening admitted that they did not see the shipping on the invoice details and put in their standard charge... 100e!? in the end they let it go and revised, but it took a lot of interaction.

davetherave wrote: »

Who assesses what VAT and Duty, if any, is required under this system?

don't see it as that complicated, the system only needs to ask a few questions/get amounts input and you upload invoice as support, then the webpage programming gives you the charge to pay. the invoice allows revenue to spot check.

Yes, someone could make up an invoice, but how is that any different to now where sellers will provide fake invoices for goods shipped.

ShayNanigan · 13-06-2021 6:03pm

I'm currently considering ordering from a shop in UK. Shipping included my order would be around 19 euros. Still unsure if I will though since orders to Ireland at the moment deliver within 15 days via standard mail.

I have to ask the seller whether the price has VAT included in it but not sure they care to bother with it. I have always ordered things with either the VAT included or not applicable so not sure how this happens in practice. Does An Post contact the recipient before the delivery or how does it work? I don't expect the mailman to be asking for money before handing over the parcel? It might be easier to order from somewhere else in Europe (could not find anything remotely ok here in Ireland, sadly) but the product itself (plus shipping) would be more expensive everywhere I looked.

whiterebel · 13-06-2021 6:51pm

An pPost usually do require money before delivery.

VG31 · 13-06-2021 7:48pm

ShayNanigan wrote: »

I'm currently considering ordering from a shop in UK. Shipping included my order would be around 19 euros. Still unsure if I will though since orders to Ireland at the moment deliver within 15 days via standard mail.

I have to ask the seller whether the price has VAT included in it but not sure they care to bother with it. I have always ordered things with either the VAT included or not applicable so not sure how this happens in practice. Does An Post contact the recipient before the delivery or how does it work? I don't expect the mailman to be asking for money before handing over the parcel? It might be easier to order from somewhere else in Europe (could not find anything remotely ok here in Ireland, sadly) but the product itself (plus shipping) would be more expensive everywhere I looked.

I've had 5 or 6 packages sent from the UK this year by Royal Mail which were over €22 but An Post didn't ask for payment on any of them.

There's no guarantees of course but low values items seem likely to get through.

muffler · 14-06-2021 8:27pm

So I was considering placing an order from China which will cost about €15. The order obviously wont arrive until well after July 1st. Would customs charges be applicable?

whiterebel · 14-06-2021 10:37pm

Yes, thats the plan

muffler · 16-06-2021 7:57pm

whiterebel wrote: »

Yes, thats the plan

Thanks. Any idea what charges would be on a €15 order?

KAGY · 16-06-2021 11:13pm

muffler wrote: »

Thanks. Any idea what charges would be on a €15 order?

23% on price plus postage
Plus an post charge 3.50 (or is it still €10)
So about 7 euro

KAGY · 16-06-2021 11:16pm

Would i be right in assuming that if a package from China is in the Netherlands before July 1st then we won't have to pay?

JackieChang · 17-06-2021 5:40pm

Will this affect Amazon purchases or is it business as usual? i.e. they sort out any charges at checkout. No need for you to interact with anPost.

17-06-2021 10:16pm

JackieChang wrote: »

Will this affect Amazon purchases or is it business as usual? i.e. they sort out any charges at checkout. No need for you to interact with anPost.

correct - you won't have to do anything beyond paying the amazon uk checkout price.

if you have amazon prime and want to buy some items under 19£ or so then do so before the end of June as you'll get them VAT free (most items fulfilled by Amazon)

order them individually or at least keep the total under that amount

Tazz T · 18-06-2021 9:41am

Forgot about this and made a 21 euro order from lightinthebox earlier this week. Interesting to see how this will work out.

whiterebel · 30-06-2021 3:57pm

From An Post:
From July 1st 2021, VAT and customs charges will apply when you shop online outside of the EU. We’re here to help you understand these changes and continue to invest in new technology to make online shopping easy.

What does this mean?
VAT and customs charges already apply to AddressPal purchases from Great Britain and USA with a value greater than €22. From July 1st the VAT exemption of €22 will be removed. VAT and customs charges will now apply to all applicable items.

How will I know if I have to pay a charge?
If Irish Revenue have applied VAT and customs charges to your AddressPal order, An Post will send you an email and text message providing a unique reference number specific to your order detailing the charges that have been applied.

How can I pay a customs charge?
The charges can be paid simply at anpost.com/PayCustoms or at any post office using your unique reference number before we deliver your parcel.

eirman · 30-06-2021 6:04pm

https://service.aliexpress.com/page/knowledge?pageId=37&category=1000021915&knowledge=1060863305&language=en

JackieChang · 30-06-2021 6:42pm

So theoretically, if I buy a tiny trinket from Alibaba for 20cent, it will be held up at customs until I pay VAT and the admin fee?

whiterebel · 30-06-2021 7:10pm

Yes

30-06-2021 11:35pm

did a test on Aliexpress there (now being 1st of July 2021 and all) and they are now putting on VAT at checkout

like they do for say Australia

so it's effectively now a "duty-paid" model

so if VAT is paid then we won't have to pay An Post a €3.50 "admin charge" on top of this?

if the VAT is paid then surely An Post can't do that just for the sake of it an for their general hatred of Chinese-originated mail!?

I will try to ask them or does anyone know already?

quote from ali link above

https://service.aliexpress.com/page/knowledge?pageId=37&category=1000021915&knowledge=1060863305&language=en

Q: Will I be charged again when goods deliver to my country?

A: If you have paid for order with VAT in AliExpress, VAT should not be charged again by customs/logistics provider. In case you were charged again, please keep the invoice and submit it to customer service team to get refund of it. Please note administration fee pay to logistics provider cannot be refunded in this case.

01-07-2021 8:51am

I've posted this query through the An Post contact form

Hello,

With reference to the €22 euro limit for VAT exemption expiring on July 1 2021 if an online retailer from outside the EU is now operating a "duty paid" model where the Irish VAT and / or other duty is paid to them at the point-of-sale for passing on to the Irish Exchequer then this item should NOT be subject to any other charges such as administration charges etc before delivery in Ireland

is that correct?

kingstevii · 01-07-2021 9:07pm

Just bought an item off aliexpress and got charged tax. The little icon beside it explained that it was due to me European import tax..

01-07-2021 10:43pm

kingstevii wrote: »

Just bought an item off aliexpress and got charged tax. The little icon beside it explained that it was due to me European import tax..

The interesting thing will be if an post hit you with
3.50 admin charge before delivery.

kingstevii · 02-07-2021 2:16am

glasso wrote: »

The interesting thing will be if an post hit you with
3.50 admin charge before delivery.

I'll report back in about 3 months!

ussjtrunks · 02-07-2021 2:25am

Surely there won’t be the admin charge of the vat is prepaid, what would an post be charging for

02-07-2021 12:20pm

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Surely there won’t be the admin charge of the vat is prepaid, what would an post be charging for

"checking" that the VAT is cleared.

An Post despise and have admitted that they delay the stuff from China.

what's stopping them doing this - hopefully they won't...

how will something say from Aliexpress be signalled as "VAT paid"

also as the Aliexpress FAQ says they are only covering VAT so Duty could still be liable (on something over €150)

ussjtrunks · 02-07-2021 1:00pm

Anyone actually get anything from amazon today?

02-07-2021 1:05pm

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Anyone actually get anything from amazon today?

yes. got some items that I ordered through prime before the VAT changed.

no issue.

nothing has changed wrt Amazon UK except for paying VAT on items under 22 euro equivalent

ussjtrunks · 02-07-2021 1:47pm

Thank god for that

have a few packages coming I ordered pre change

02-07-2021 5:46pm

Yeah I got two Amazon orders today that I made Monday. No problems thank God.

ussjtrunks · 02-07-2021 6:10pm

Now I just need to figure out if zavvi is still safe

ShayNanigan · 05-07-2021 2:05pm

I'm still procrastinating with ordering from Etsy. The search thingy is bad and mostly suggest stuff from the UK so to me it seems most of the stuff I want is there. I tried putting a couple of items in the basket that show to be around €20 in total with shipping costs being €4.25 and it gives me "tax" of €5.57 in addition to those. Now, would there be some sort of additional duty to pay, I don't know. I could try asking the seller but I doubt they'd know. All I want is to get the item from the seller to my door without a hassle, willing to pay duties and taxes as long as it's simple to do. But I feel uneasy ordering since I have no clue whether there's some additional hoops to jump through before I can get my parcel.

Sleeper12 · 05-07-2021 2:31pm

I'm still getting deliveries ordered before 1st July & no issues with the vat. Revenue seems to be taking the sensible approach on this one by giving a few days /weeks grace

Darc19 · 05-07-2021 2:36pm

ShayNanigan wrote: »

I'm still procrastinating with ordering from Etsy. The search thingy is bad and mostly suggest stuff from the UK so to me it seems most of the stuff I want is there. I tried putting a couple of items in the basket that show to be around €20 in total with shipping costs being €4.25 and it gives me "tax" of €5.57 in addition to those. Now, would there be some sort of additional duty to pay, I don't know. I could try asking the seller but I doubt they'd know. All I want is to get the item from the seller to my door without a hassle, willing to pay duties and taxes as long as it's simple to do. But I feel uneasy ordering since I have no clue whether there's some additional hoops to jump through before I can get my parcel.

That equates to the 23% vat.

Unlikely to be duty unless the item is made in China and is dutiable. If its made in the UK, then there's no duty as a duty exempted agreement is in force on UK originating goods.

As the vat works out as 23%, its obvious etsy has a system similar to amazon and taxes are calculated and item delivered with no hassles

eirman · 23-07-2021 4:54pm

I just received an item from AliExpress upon which I paid 23% VAT at the checkout.

There was nothing on the package (that I could spot) to indicate that VAT was paid.

Nonetheless the package was delivered by anPost without hindrance.

The question is .... was this package delivered as part of the amnesty for purchases made prior to 1/7

or did I miss something on the package indicating vat-pre-payment.

23-07-2021 5:08pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653109#Comment_117653109

probably not possible to say at this point - they "An Post" could be allowing the month of July as a "grace period"

but hopefully the whole point of paying the VAT on Ali is to avoid extra charges....

VAT exemption on items under €22 from outside EU disappearing on 1 July 2021

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