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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Why don't they hold a non-binding referendum in NI about the NIP?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,538 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Because it would become a border poll. Brexit wasn't just about leaving the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,522 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    I don’t think unionists are in favour of the British government proposals on the troubles legacy due to the statute of limitations applying to IRA murders as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,643 ✭✭✭storker


    Quite. They thought an attitude of "It'll be alright on the night just get it done." would suffice. The EU, on the other hand new what it was doing. Remember Raab's first Brexit meeting where he turned up with nothing but a shoulder shrug and the EU team turned up with the texts of the various agreements etc? The UK's level of amateurish ineptitude hasn't gone away and the classic playground trick of trying to blame someone else doesn't fool anyone except the faithful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Bigus


    As Bertie Ahern said at the Brexit hearing committee chaired by Mr Benn , “the EU are well prepared and they have some fairly sharp cookies working for them”



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭schmoo2k




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,442 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Over 2000 medicines face withdrawl because of the UK failure to sign up to aligned regulations

    As stated many times, the protocol is not the problem, it is the least worst answer to the awful problem that Brexit created.

    There already was a solution put forward, rejected by Johnson, which would do away with all of these issues, the Backstop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    My point was it is the type of issue that Art 16 is specifically for, and the EU had previously indicated that it was willing to accommodate some changes, when supplying NHS entities in NI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,442 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Yes, but the point is that it is not Protocol that is the probem.

    And it isn't the EU that needs to take the blame. THey gave the UK a grace period, the UK then extended it, and then they both agreed to extend it further.

    The British Generic Manufacturers Association (BGMA) said it will be commercially unviable to sell some products in Northern Ireland at that point.

    The movement of medicines from GB-NI is currently covered by a 'grace period' which is due to expire in January.

    The UK government has expressed scepticism about the EU's post-grace period plan and says medicines should be entirely removed from the Protocol.

    The UK simply want another, yet another exemption. 'I know we all knew this could be a problem, but now that it is we are buggered if we are actually going to do anything about it and instead will simply blame the EU'.

    It is yet another consequence of the Brexit that Johnson and the government, and ultimatley the voters, wanted.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    That tells me nothing really apart from what the UK government want people to think.

    Can you name a medicine (i.e. the active ingredient) that was on sale in NI and soon will not be possible to sell it purely because of the NIP?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,325 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    If the Scottish SNP say they are unhappy and want another referendum, because of the English overruling their own Brexit vote, we all know the UK government won't change their mind to allow it, so what makes you think they would renegotiate anything?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,705 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Unionists and Nationalists are both against this. It's not about appeasing them. It's to put at ease the squadies that went over there and murdered british citizens in cold blood. It will get the armed forces back on their side. Nationalists and Unionists don't vote tory but the armed forces potentially will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 JoePirate


    The absolutely knew what they were signing up for. Everyone did. They just calculated they could bully Ireland/EU into submission after they had got what they wanted. That's what is going on now.

    Dominic Cummings admitted as much last night on twitter - this is now what they consider the right time to "tidy up" and bully Ireland out of the EU by reneging on the protocol.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭fash


    I did as well as many I suspect - if UK was stupid enough to pick a hard brexit - as it turned out they chose a diamond hard brexit- their choice of course, but obviously they should go f*** themselves if they want to get the benefit without the cost



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    NI - 666*6/15= 266 per person per year

    NL - 59000/70 = 843 per person per year

    You're right, my quick dirty maths was wrong. It's worse! It's 216% more productive 😎



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 eternalblame


    What part of the word 'agreement' does the UK not understand ?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    This is lovely...

    Even the way he is sitting there shows a lack of interest or respect in what is being discussed 😒



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    I tend to agree with you its just bluster (in the FT as well - Northern Ireland set to lose access to 2,000 medicines | Financial Times (ft.com)), from last month: EU-UK relations (europa.eu):

    The Commission has identified a creative solution to ensure the continued long-term supply of medicines from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. The solution involves the EU changing its own rules so that regulatory compliance functions for medicines authorised by the UK for the Northern Ireland market, in accordance with the Protocol, may be located in Great Britain, subject to specific conditions ensuring that the medicines concerned are not further distributed in the EU Internal Market. The Commission will put forward a legislative proposal in the early autumn in order to be able to finish the legislative process on time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Der Spiegel suggest in an article that Johnson and Frost are simply trying to get rid of the Protocol : undermine it bit by bit with the hope that it no longer exists in a couple of years.

    The "renegotiation" is clearly a nonsense. They view the Protocol as an affront and are trying to worm their way out of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭yagan


    What's most bizarre about their fixation on the protocol is that it does zero to progress Brexit for their Tory English heartlands that gave them the working majority to get it done.

    While the primary purpose of their attack is to perpetuate the Brexit struggle against the EU it actually goes against the English majority that was happy to ditch the DUP.

    At some point English Brexiters for who the Irish Sea is a border are going to get bored with what they considered sorted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It's hard to figure this one out. Most English people seem completely disinterested in the Protocol story - the only people you ever hear commenting on it and complaining about it regularly are the cranks who write for the Daily Telegraph (but those guys attack the EU for a living).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,522 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    There are echoes of De Valera-ism about the current British government in particular the way the Governor General was sidelined and eroded bit by bit and at a wider level the strained relations with the wider western world such as David gray the American ambassador during the war , all of which was very popular with the domestic audience



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    Whats probably eating up the UK government is they probably feel a bit robbed, all of Boris's bluster about the NIP being invisible basically relied on him getting an amazing UK-EU trade deal. IF the trade deal was more extensive and way more in the UK's favour then the NIP would have been invisible as he promised, but they completely floundered the trade deal and when that flatlined it turned the NIP into a problem. He basically overpromised on one with the expectation he was going to win big in the following negotiation.


    It's almost like a gambling addiction.


    And considering we've seen similar gambles from him in relation to Covid, I'm kinda concerned that I'm still in the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    If the North ends up smelling like roses then it will prove that Brexit was a terrible idea.

    It's not in the Tories interests to enable the NIP to succeed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    I don't know what Johnson thinks about NI but the day to day NI news here in England seems fairly balanced imo.There are people who appear happy with the opportunities access to the EU market allows and there is the Loyalist community who appear anxious their status within the UK is being eroded.I want the UK to remain united but can see the opportunities available to NI,I'd just like to see further negotiation on goods from the UK into NI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭yagan


    Negotiations ended when the UK parliament ratified the deal Johnson's team had drafted with the EU. If the Loyalists threaten violence against Westminster's will then they're alienating themselves further from the Tory voter base in England which will make it easier for Johnson to actually strengthen the UK Irish Sea border, especially as the recent rise in illegal channel crossings increases awareness of NI being another backdoor into Britain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    I would like to see that solution extended to goods from mainland UK into NI(only for distribution within NI)which would possibly alleviate the issues with the protocol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    Again there are provisions for such things already - if the UK shared their data with the EU and the paperwork is filled in correctly and the produce is labelled correctly then the checks go down. Its why the EU would like to see the UK implement the existing agreements first.

    But I suspect that is not what London wants...



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,666 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Why? As a British citizen, what difference would it make to your life for the EU to change Johnson's oven-ready deal? What is it about GB->NI exports that has such a disruptive effect on your life that you want to see it changed now, six months after Johnson proclaimed it to be such a great victory? And why is it important for you to have six of Ireland's 32 counties kept in the "United" Kingdom, at such an enormous financial cost to GB (the equivalent, per annum, as the UK's membership of the EU)? It's your taxes that are paying to prop up NI's economy - what value are you getting for your money?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    The Union is precious to me.Johnson and co are threatening its existence.

    Somethings are worth more than money.



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