Should NPHET be disbanded ?

sameoldname · 06-07-2021 5:05pm

Johns nephew wrote: »

Cut out the sentimental rubbish. You didn't give a F**k about the 1000+ people who died of the regular flu in 2019.

I object to people claiming that "the most adversely affected" in society is a ****ing publican who is receiving supports rather than people who have died or will die. That poster doesn't care either, but you didn't bother to point out his sentimental rubbish.

sameoldname · 06-07-2021 5:10pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

We all have lost people to suicide and other non lock down related deaths, including people with undiagnosed cancer....what's your point?

You ask me did I care about it, now you're telling me that everyone has lost someone so who cares? Do you even have a point anymore?

06-07-2021 5:19pm

is_that_so wrote: »

I love the way 4 words are "calling for something". I'm perfectly aware what NHPET are, so a wasted supercilious lecture/rant. I'm also aware that they got input or advice at the very beginning, from non-medical people. Not doing so leaves people, even experts, at risk of massive selection bias.
There is no one way to do this and it is perfectly acceptable to question how NPHET went about our strategy and whether there were flaws in it.

You clearly don't so again, why would we put an economist on a medical health advise committee?

Silentcorner · 06-07-2021 5:23pm

sameoldname wrote: »

I object to people claiming that "the most adversely affected" in society is a ****ing publican who is receiving supports rather than people who have died or will die. That poster doesn't care either, but you didn't bother to point out his sentimental rubbish.

sameoldname wrote: »

You ask me did I care about it, now you're telling me that everyone has lost someone so who cares? Do you even have a point anymore?

You are getting a little too upset, I'll not be engaging with you anymore.

We have done more economic damage to people in hospitality than most other industries, there isn't anything even remotely untrue about that, but I won't get sucked into a pointless emotive argument about deaths.

TalleyRand83 · 06-07-2021 5:25pm

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

No definitely not. They are doing a great job imo.
What should be disbanded are the bunch of cretins moaning and bitching about nphet every single day in the comments section of journal.ie

No doubt you've a nice cushy job and are completely unaffected financially the last year and abit

sameoldname · 06-07-2021 5:31pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

We have done more economic damage to people in hospitality than most other industries, there isn't anything even remotely untrue about that, but I won't get sucked into a pointless emotive argument about deaths.

If that's what you meant, then that's what you should have said but you didn't, you claimed they suffered the most, not economically the most, just "the most".

Anyway, good luck with your crusade to get rid of experts, I'm sure it will serve the country well.

PowerToWait · 06-07-2021 5:33pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ok, maybe you will show me another nation that has put as many people out of work as we have? I've asked before and no one can point to one.

Name another country that has poured as much money into supporting those affected?

In Spain hospitality has been decimated. No PUP, no government support whatsoever.

And guess what? No NPHET.

Dempo1 · 06-07-2021 5:35pm

A definite No, throughout this pandemic NPHET (Not individuals who've been vilified in quite an appalling manner) have been the most consistent of any organisation dealing with the pandemic. Senior HSE officials have side stepped ever failing, Government all over the place, Representative bodies / Vested interests acted appallingly and continue to do.

The We're in this Together cliché long forgotten.

There's a S*** storm ahead, both financially and medically and I feel mostly concerned for anyone on a waiting list let alone actually trying to get basic care in hospital departments at the moment, it's an utter shambles and I'm sorry, the 'it's the Cyber Attack" excuses wearing a little thin at this stage.

I've nothing more to say, other than again expressing my utter disgust at some of the Vile commentary over the past few weeks, it seems SOME people care more about a few pints and a basket of chicken wings FFS than what has actually occured over the past horrific 15 months.

Dr. Bre · 06-07-2021 5:46pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

A definite No, throughout this pandemic NPHET (Not individuals who've been vilified in quite an appalling manner) have been the most consistent of any organisation dealing with the pandemic. Senior HSE officials have side stepped ever failing, Government all over the place, Representative bodies / Vested interests acted appallingly and continue to do.

The We're in this Together cliché long forgotten.

There's a S*** storm ahead, both financially and medically and I feel mostly concerned for anyone on a waiting list let alone actually trying to get basic care in hospital departments at the moment, it's an utter shambles and I'm sorry, the 'it's the Cyber Attack" excuses wearing a little thin at this stage.

I've nothing more to say, other than again expressing my utter disgust at some of the Vile commentary over the past few weeks, it seems SOME people care more about a few pints and a basket of chicken wings FFS than what has actually occured over the past horrific 15 months.

The we are in this together never actually happened

Fils · 06-07-2021 5:52pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

A definite No, throughout this pandemic NPHET (Not individuals who've been vilified in quite an appalling manner) have been the most consistent of any organisation dealing with the pandemic. Senior HSE officials have side stepped ever failing, Government all over the place, Representative bodies / Vested interests acted appallingly and continue to do.

The We're in this Together cliché long forgotten.

There's a S*** storm ahead, both financially and medically and I feel mostly concerned for anyone on a waiting list let alone actually trying to get basic care in hospital departments at the moment, it's an utter shambles and I'm sorry, the 'it's the Cyber Attack" excuses wearing a little thin at this stage.

I've nothing more to say, other than again expressing my utter disgust at some of the Vile commentary over the past few weeks, it seems SOME people care more about a few pints and a basket of chicken wings FFS than what has actually occured over the past horrific 15 months.

Take into account the cost of nphet. It’s far from the pup payment those salaries are.

Dempo1 · 06-07-2021 5:56pm

Fils wrote: »

Take into account the cost of nphet. It’s far from the pup payment those salaries are.

Did you see the news onthe HSE"s Paul Reids salary today? Twice that of the Taoiseach (in itself 4 times what it should be), not a single member if NPHET earns near the outrageous salaries lashed out at HSE senior management.

To compare state supports against the cost of NPHET is just beyond absurd.

Fils · 06-07-2021 7:32pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Did you see the news onthe HSE"s Paul Reids salary today? Twice that of the Taoiseach (in itself 4 times what it should be), not a single member if NPHET earns near the outrageous salaries lashed out at HSE senior management.

To compare state supports against the cost of NPHET is just beyond absurd.

Don’t get me started on Paul Reid, the greatest since Charlie Haughey’s time.

bucketybuck · 06-07-2021 7:44pm

I would absolutely disband NPHET in the morning.

And then as taoiseach I would appoint an advisory group made up of experts in a range of fields and task them with modelling scenarios and offering advice on future planning. Call it the HAG, or the CPT.

Just optics you say? Replacing one group with another?

Perhaps. But important optics all the same, at this stage NPHET have lost, credibility, integrity, impartiality, utility and a whole bunch more "ilities" that I can't think off right now.

There is a huge problem with the perception of NPHET and Michael Martin could solve the problem in the morning with the stroke of a pen. They are supposed to be nothing more than an advisory group, so what exactly would be the problem with disbanding them with immediate effect and getting advice elsewhere? How could this possibly be an issue?

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with a leader getting fresh viewpoints and advisors, members of those sorts of advisory groups should be changed on a regular basis anyway to prevent groupthink. Anybody who would fight for NPHET really should stop and have a think about what they are fighting for.

end of the road · 15-07-2021 2:00pm

Johns nephew wrote: »

Cut out the sentimental rubbish. You didn't give a F**k about the 1000+ people who died of the regular flu in 2019.

as covid is not flue as we know, whether the poster did or didn't care about those who died from the flue in 2019 is ultimately irrelevant. nor is what they stated sentimental rubbish.

end of the road · 15-07-2021 2:07pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117605919#Comment_117605919

covid is not flue as we know, flue while it does spread, does not spread in anywhere near the amount that uncontrolled covid 19 and even controlled covid 19 does.

we have a balanced approach, the most balanced approach possible given what is being dealt with, and the good news is that we are not far from the end now.

joseywhales · 15-07-2021 11:08pm

The logical strategy is to let the UK be the guinea pigs, Boris is happy to take massive risk, we can wait maybe a month and copy them if things look ok. In some ways it makes decisions very easy. We have 60m+ test cases to determine our policy from. I'm pretty sure this is the strategy we have and it's fine.

Valhallapt · 15-07-2021 11:10pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614452#Comment_117614452

we have the least amount of balance in the EU

For Forks Sake · 15-07-2021 11:15pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117617636#Comment_117617636

While I'd be largely in favour of that idea, the flaw is that plenty of people from Plague Island are wandering around Ireland already.

end of the road · 15-07-2021 11:29pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117617649#Comment_117617649

That is not the case.

Red Silurian · 19-07-2021 11:51am

Disband a government advisory group of experts in public health, modelling, virology, science and infectious diseases in the middle of a pandemic... Sounds a little crazy to me

Remember, even Donald Trump had Anthony Fauchi advising him, although he didn't listen much

Red Silurian · 19-07-2021 11:55am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117617636#Comment_117617636

I disagree. I don't think it's our strategy.

But even if it was, we would be slowly easing restrictions while the UK get their freedom day and both our Islands will be plunged into a lockdown in November... Whereas if we followed England's lead on this we would at least have a few weeks of normality this year

crossman47 · 19-07-2021 12:21pm

One thing that really annoys me is the comment that our concentration on Covid measures has been at the expense of cancer diagnoses, etc. Yes, these have been affected (and I am one with a colonoscopy postponed) but the reason is the virulence of Covid, not the restrictions. If we had not had lockdowns and curtailments, then our hospitalisations from Covid would have been far greater with an even worse effect on other treatments.

People who suggest otherwise are ignoring the fact that lesser restrictions would have meant more Covid patients in hospital and so an even greater knock on effect on other treatmets (or do they think Covid patients should be ignored?)

Red Silurian · 19-07-2021 1:59pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117631672#Comment_117631672

One argument that was made this time last year is that instead of going for a "living with COVID" approach we should have gone for a "Zero COVID" one... It's too late for that now of course but if we had taken that approach there would have been fewer deaths and less need for restrictions in our hospitals

Of course NPHET had recommended MHQ in May of 2020

OwenM · 19-07-2021 3:33pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117632240#Comment_117632240

The only successful elimination of a pathogenic virus was smallpox, it took decades. Smallpox also does not jump between species, so I would love to hear your plan to lockdown every animal on the planet for several weeks. Australia is doing great at the moment and New Zealand is giving grants to coastal towns to migrate their economy away from tourism......

and MHQ isn't working for either of them now with the delta variant.

Valhallapt · 19-07-2021 3:49pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117631510#Comment_117631510

Fauci is competent.

Holohan is a failed civil servant, after a disastrous reign at cervical check, he got a cushy CMO job, nobody saw the pandemic coming, otherwise he wouldn’t have been left in such an important role.

Holohan has ignored government commissioned advice from professor Ferguson. Holohan has frequently given advice which runs totally contradictory to the CMOs of the other 27 EU countries.

Micheal Martin has abdicated responsibility and Holohan has been put on a pedestal. The only way for the government to take back charge is to break up NPHET and take advice separately from experts and the have the government decide how to proceed.

end of the road · 19-07-2021 4:52pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633039#Comment_117633039

so to be clear, we break up the current expert group, and then take advice from experts, who will most likely be the same experts?

that makes logical sense alright.

crossman47 · 19-07-2021 5:12pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633039#Comment_117633039

Thats just ridiculous. We're not allowed discuss cervical check on this thread but Holohan did not move from any role there. He was CMO all along. Its a common misunderstanding - he was not in charge of the cervical check programme.

Red Silurian · 19-07-2021 5:15pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633039#Comment_117633039

Lot to unpack there but one thing we can agree on is Faucci's competence. While it might be convenient to blame cervicalcheck on Hoolohan the truth is of course that he had very little to do with it (Grainne Flannelly was the one who decided not to tell the women what was going on) and a lot to do with trying to get it back on track as quickly as possible.

What does giving advice different from the other 27 EU CMO's have to do with competency? Most other countries in the EU don't have failing health systems so the advice is obviously going to be different

Martin has essentially left the running of the country to Hoolohan and Co and fair enough the public health experts are failing miserably as politicians, a good example of government incompetency. I think that a part of this is because the govt ignored NPHET advice in the past and the cases went nuts in January/February. But in fairness you don't need to disband NPHET, just stop listening to them

You have me on the Ferguson report admittedly

Valhallapt · 19-07-2021 6:18pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117633385#Comment_117633385

It does, it's more or less what the UK government had to do also. (I'm not suggesting they are a model to follow)

The problem with NPHET is that all the specialities report into Holohan, he then gives public advice, the government then have a binary decision go with Holohan or go against him. What happened last Christmas shocked us all with the virulence of the British Variant, the government went against Holohan and have been licking their wounds since. What would be better is to have the data modelling done by a science team, the medical stuff done by doctors (incl. Holohan) and the reporting of numbers to be done by the CSO, HSE should be giving advice on capacity etc. all directly to the government, then it is a political decision, and citizens views have to be accounted for. That way the government can come out and say we have taken advice from all the experts and our conclusion is ........ they way forward is ........ If they get it wrong we get rid of them.

Look at Trump, he got expert advice, ignored it, then got voted out of office. Trump failed to install himself as a dictator.

Holohan has ignored expert advice when it doesn't suit his narrative (e.g. Antigen Testing), how do I vote him out of office?

Just speculating here, but I doubt people in many countries even know the name of their CMO, let alone make "(Obama) HOPE" posters of them.

end of the road · 19-07-2021 9:30pm

the nphet model is more or less what you are looking for, it is doing exactly what you are wanting to be done bar the CSO bit which is unworkable.

citizens views should never be accounted for when it comes to an issue like this, since there is a small minority set on, and were set on through out this whole thing, on undermining everything.

the CMO was right to ignore antigen Testing, based on the evidence provided.

the UK CMO or whatever he is called is well known, as are those of other countries, as they appear regularly.

Valhallapt · 19-07-2021 10:06pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634598#Comment_117634598

citizens views should never be accounted for when it comes to an issue like this

Sorry this is a democracy, not a theocracy. Maybe move to Iran??

the CMO was right to ignore antigen Testing, based on the evidence provided.

You are delusional, or just a Tony fan boy.

Professor Mark Ferguson, Director General, Science Foundation Ireland and Chief Scientific Adviser to the Government of Ireland, chaired a report into the use of Antigen Testing.

Professor Paddy Mallon, Professor of Microbial Diseases UCD, Consultant in Infectious Diseases, St Vincent’s University Hospital and Director of the UCD Centre for Experimental Pathogen Host Research
Professor Mary Horgan, President of Royal College of Physicians in Ireland, Professor, School of Medicine, UCC. Consultant in Infectious Diseases, Cork University Hospital
Professor Kingston Mills, Professor of Experimental Immunology, Trinity College Dublin and Director Trinity Biomedical Sciences Institute
Dr Lorraine Doherty, National Clinical Director Health Protection, Health Service Executive*
Dr Darina O’Flanagan, Former Director of the Health Protection Surveillance Centre; Special adviser to NPHET at Department of Health*

The report had a majority finding that Ireland should rollout antigen testing with immediate effect.

*Indicates member does not support report (the two dissenting voices were and still are on the main NPHET board and are direct reports to Tony, I would guess Tony pressured them)

Watch this video from the Oireachtas Transport Committee https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1405157995068207109 NPHET talk about putting kerrygold onto the Covid tests to invalidate them, they had the time to come up with this embarrassing farce, yet on media questioning later that day Ronan Glynn admitted that they had not read / discussed the outcome of the Prof Fergusson report. Tony didn't want to hear science. He wants to hear about putting kerrygold butter onto covid tests....

Tony Holohan, rejected this science and went with his gut. Antigen Testing is snake oil... despite every other country in the world using them, and infact the EU sort of mandated that Ireland had to start following the science in order to qualify for Covid grants, hence the HSE are now pushing ahead with testing against NPHET advice.

The individual functions of the group work reasonable ok, however they all report to Tony, I presume Tony put pressure on Philip Nolan to tweet that Antigen Tests were snake oil. Philip Nolan has no qualification or experience to make such a judgement, he is a medical doctor and was a surgical intern before returning to academia. A smart guy, but he is not the right guy to be doing the modelling. A data science or data engineer would be much better running the models for NPHET, I think at this stage all of NPHETS modelling has now been debunked? If I want my appendix out, I'll go to a surgeon, If I want some data modelled, I'll go to a data modeller not a surgeon. More importantly, data modelling must be independent of NPHET otherwise you get confirmation bias.

I know it was early days, but "It might be higher risk to wear a mask, so don't" and "Continue to visit nursing homes, isolation would be worse on residents than covid" were just another two of Tony's greatest hits. Can't remember the quote but when Tony was quizzed about how the Central Statistics Office put the covid death at a lower number than NPHET, he just shouted them down, Tony is above scrutiny, a deity our saviour...

TonyMaloney · 29-08-2021 12:29pm

So many of you are getting your wish and the public health emergency team is to be disbanded mid-emergency. Might as well I suppose, the gov disregard much of their advice anyway.

So now we start opening schools and universities while having the highest incidence rate in the EU. I'm getting a sinking feeling.

I hope you're all correct to put our fate souly in the hands of the idiots behind the "meaningful Christmas" disaster, but I fear that as usual most of you have it entirely wrong.

Deeper Blue · 29-08-2021 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117818432#Comment_117818432

Covid is no longer an emergency to the vast vast majority.

I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise.

Time to move on with life.

29-08-2021 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117818432#Comment_117818432

How on earth is it mid-emergency when almost the entire population has been vaccinated?

29-08-2021 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117818432#Comment_117818432

"Mid emergency" LMFAO.

astrofool · 29-08-2021 12:47pm

It's the time to move on, there is no greater fix coming, it's either return to lockdown and stay there or get on with things, what happens over winter, happens over winter.

NPHET don't need to be around to manage the booster rollout, future vaccines will be in addition to the current set, most people will just get on with things and (hopefully) be more wary of going out if they're symptomatic (+ masks on public transport, for the long term population control).

Dempo1 · 29-08-2021 1:39pm

Whilst I voted no, my reasons are quite simple. There is and despite a developing narrative, continued uncertainty and I might add at a time when Vacination rates are very high.

I've frankly been disgusted at some of the personal attacks on individual members of NPHET and astonished that these very members whom have been generally positive over the past few months continued to be vilified, seems no matter what they say or do (all in the persuit of public health advice) they still regarded as vermin by some.

Throughout this pandemic, NPHET have been the only consistent group helping to direct the country out of this nightmare. Government and HSE are all over the place and continue to be. The vacinne roll out success is down to an excellent leader along with front line staff and the public listening to the science.

Whilst I voted no, I believe in time, perhaps early next year, to use that often used cliché, the next few MONTHS are critical and to my mind, god help us if the spin machine that is HSE senior executives are, take over managing any direction to do with this pandemic, which despite some"s assertions, has not ended.

bucketybuck · 29-08-2021 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117818432#Comment_117818432

Imagine going on extended holidays in the middle of a national emergency!

event · 29-08-2021 3:14pm

Who will all the conspiracy theorists blame now?

astrofool · 29-08-2021 3:19pm

Just to add, I think NPHET have done a great job, they probably got too political at some points (leading to confusion) but seems to have managed OK, but the emergency part is over, time to move on and live and manage in the world the way it is.

Next question, should the Coronavirus forum be disbanded? 😃

Risteard81 · 29-08-2021 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117604319#Comment_117604319

It was never merely a public health issue - there were always any number of aspects to it and the reaction. That is why illegal, unconstitutional means such as imprisoning the population and issuing diktats as to how we must live our lives was always wrong, immoral and unlawful - and always shall be. Totalitarianism is the true disease.

29-08-2021 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117819034#Comment_117819034

They've all come to pass.

29-08-2021 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117818483#Comment_117818483

Why masks on public transport? Gone in the Netherlands from the 20th of September, gone in Hungary, gone in England (London is a bit of a grey area), never required in a number of countries, but Ireland keeps them indefinitely for some reason?

Risteard81 · 29-08-2021 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117605805#Comment_117605805

No it didn't - closing the country down is and always was wrong, immoral, abhorrent and illegal. Leo is a coward, morally bankrupt and utterly unlikeable and untrustworthy.

29-08-2021 4:33pm

No absolutely not.

Disbanding them now with cases still at 2k a day and that's with 90% vaccinated, and still questions over whether boosters will be needed, sounds premature to me.

astrofool · 29-08-2021 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117819131#Comment_117819131

For the population control that you've been harping on about, need a permanent measure to keep the conspiracy theorists pliant.

DarkJager21 · 29-08-2021 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117819413#Comment_117819413

They are a pony out of tricks, no longer needed. They need to go before we get to Xmas so we don’t have to hear ridiculous shite this year like leaving elderly near the window or using 3ft serving spoons etc

29-08-2021 5:06pm

Time will tell.

DarkJager21 · 29-08-2021 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117819572#Comment_117819572

Nah their time has been and gone, it’s long overdue.

JDxtra · 29-08-2021 5:22pm

NPHET overstepped their boundaries too many times. I believe they caused more harm through constant fear and some poor decisions. They were also led by a man on a power trip.

He (and they) had to go.

Should NPHET be disbanded ?

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