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A short history of Irish Criminal Injustices and Inconsistencies

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    #2
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    Overheal wrote: »
    This is the part where I'd make a big rant to get your thumb out of your collective asses and reform your justice system but I know in 5 years time nothing will have changed.

    Why are you lecturing us on our justice system? lol


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    #3
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I knew it.. you're Michael Graham


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    #4
    Abrasax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Abrasax


    May I add the continual jailing of people for selling the non-poisonous pollen or flower of a particular plant, for up to 10 years, as another longstanding injustice.


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    #5
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,766 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    laugh wrote: »
    Why are you lecturing us on our justice system? lol
    Why not.


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    #6
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,045 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I've been saying it for ages - crime report stories and scumbag-gets-off-lightly stories should have their own forum.

    Mind you, there's be **** all left to discuss in AH...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #7
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    Overheal wrote: »
    Why not.

    If you have enough money is the US you can get away with anything.


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    #8
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    laugh wrote: »
    If you have enough money is the US you can get away with anything.

    About 1 in every 30 US citizens are behind bars, and crime rates still continue to dwarf those of Ireland


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    #9
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,766 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    laugh wrote: »
    If you have enough money is the US you can get away with anything.
    Uh huh.


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    #10
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    My name is URL wrote: »
    About 1 in every 30 US citizens are behind bars, and crime rates still continue to dwarf those of Ireland

    Locking up all the poor people is a good idea I admit....


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    #11
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    People more than likely with no legal experience giving thoughts on summarys of cases is all I see.


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    #12
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,766 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    My name is URL wrote: »
    About 1 in every 30 US citizens are behind bars, and crime rates still continue to dwarf those of Ireland
    Adult Citizens; or 2.5 million.

    I don't necessarily agree with that extreme either; but this inconsistent sentencing for rape and manslaughter and other acts of violence needs to be stamped out.


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    #13
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    Overheal wrote: »
    Uh huh.

    He lost all the other rich peoples money. Phil Spector, Robert Blake, O.J, Wacko Jacko ....


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    #14
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Overheal wrote: »
    Adult Citizens; or 2.5 million.

    I don't necessarily agree with that extreme either; but this inconsistent sentencing for rape and manslaughter and other acts of violence needs to be stamped out.

    I do agree with you about inconsistency and the apparent injustices, but crime rates are lower here than in many other western nations. So that must suggest that something is working. A lot of recent cases were shown undue leniency though.. there's no getting away from that.

    There are 2.3 million prisoners in the US.. 25% of the world's total incarcerated - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate


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    #15
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,766 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Oh I will fully admit there are failings in the US justice system but I mean, a thing at a time.

    The Crime rate is lower in Ireland either because of Lower Actual Crime, or Lower Catch and Conviction rates. More power to you.

    But what really is taking the piss out of the Irish Legal System is not the Catch or the Conviction, its the Sentencing after Conviction. That responsibility lies solely with Judges. Judges which it is worth mentioning are Appointed, not Elected.


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    #16
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    Its down to our weak liberal justice system.


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    #17
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Who cares? The World Cup is on.


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    #18
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Overheal wrote: »
    This is the part where I'd make a big rant to get your thumb out of your collective asses and reform your justice system but I know in 5 years time nothing will have changed.

    of course it won't. evenone in power in Ireland is corrupt, incompetant, useless or is connected with the right groups. There is no accountability or responsibility in any aspect of the countries governance or law :mad:


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    #19
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    rovert wrote: »
    People more than likely with no legal experience giving thoughts on summarys of cases is all I see.

    :rolleyes:

    why do you need legal experience to comment on a case?
    Its information in the public domain and everyone is entitled to an opinion on it regardless :mad:
    My name is URL wrote: »
    There are 2.3 million prisoners in the US.. 25% of the world's total incarcerated - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate

    and if we could fit them all we'd have a higher percentage in prison too...


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    #20
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »


    and if we could fit them all we'd have a higher percentage in prison too...

    What makes you think that? Why do other European countries not have such high incarceration numbers as the US? It's easy to climb up on a high horse, even when you don't know how to ride it.. I guess anything is better than Ireland though, whatever the thing is


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    #21
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    why do you need legal experience to comment on a case?
    Its information in the public domain and everyone is entitled to an opinion on it regardless :mad:

    As you dont know the law, just a guess mate?


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    #22
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,766 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    People more than likely with no legal experience giving thoughts on summarys of cases is all I see.
    Translation: Society giving its opinion on a function of society.

    I don't need to know the law to know if two teenagers go decided to make nookie, they shouldn't be in prison for it. I don't need to be a Big City Lawyer to see its also wrong to walk away from a murder charge. I also know its wrong to have no consequence visited upon you for lying to the legal system and getting an innocent man imprisoned for crimes he never committed.

    Do you need to be a farmer to smell bullsh*t?


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    #23
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    rovert wrote: »
    As you dont know the law, just a guess mate?

    oh I know the law, just obviously not all the countless loopholes that seem to always appear
    My name is URL wrote: »
    What makes you think that? Why do other European countries not have such high incarceration numbers as the US? It's easy to climb up on a high horse, even when you don't know how to ride it.. I guess anything is better than Ireland though, whatever the thing is

    if half the prisons in the country were empty do you honestly think the sentences being given now would be the norm? Prison time (even very short term) would be a much more common option. Simple economics and best use of resources, not high horse anything


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    #24
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh I know the law, just obviously not all the countless loopholes that seem to always appear

    In turn you dont know how and when these "loopholes" can be applied.


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    #25
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    rovert wrote: »
    In turn you dont know how and when these "loopholes" can be applied.

    by there very meaning of the term they shouldn't even exist anyway. Loopholes are nothing more than a failure or an expliotation of the language of the law, not its spirit.


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    #26
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    oh I know the law, just obviously not all the countless loopholes that seem to always appear



    if half the prisons in the country were empty do you honestly think the sentences being given now would be the norm? Prison time (even very short term) would be a much more common option. Simple economics and best use of resources, not high horse anything

    It's not simple economics at all.. higher levels of incarceration are statistically shown not to lower overall crime rates


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    #27
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    My name is URL wrote: »
    It's not simple economics at all.. higher levels of incarceration are statistically shown not to lower overall crime rates

    yes maybe when the levels get a lot higher than they are now, but part of that is also the failing of the prison system such that gangs and crime rings can be run in the prisons with total ease (if news reports and documentaries of both Irish and US prisons are to be believed).
    higher incarciration rates than we have now combined with a much more effective prison system and enviroment will lower crime rates. we don't have to get to high level like the US but some of the crimes in this country that do not get prison time are frankly astounding and worrying.


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    #28
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    by there very meaning of the term they shouldn't even exist anyway. Loopholes are nothing more than a failure or an expliotation of the language of the law, not its spirit.

    I guess you missed the quote marks I had around loop holes then.


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    #29
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,766 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    rovert wrote: »
    I guess you missed the quote marks I had around loop holes then.
    You mean the ones that made you sound like you were mocking the very idea that loopholes existed?

    No I saw that.


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    #30
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Overheal wrote: »
    You mean the ones that made you sound like you were mocking the very idea that loopholes existed?

    No I saw that.

    Overheal please dont start in another thread.

    There are two types of loopholes:

    Loopholes which are actually loopholes

    Pieces of sound law which people consider as loopholes


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    #31
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    rovert wrote: »
    I guess you missed the quote marks I had around loop holes then.

    "maybe"


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